Chek Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 The outer ailerons would droop down together as you have depicted, as hydraulic pressure dropped off when parked. However, I've never seen the inner flaps at less than either full up or full down, and when fully down the aircraft is always crewed and running immediately prior to take off/launch (or landing). There's a row of small hi-pressure air-slots that open as the flap lowers that blow engine bleed-air over the inner flaps at low speed, to increase control authority, and they're never left open when parked. (That I've ever seen anyway, after 25 years of watching real Phantoms, collecting books and photos. But I could still be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete63 Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1039...FP&photo_nr=137 And... another one from Airliners.net -Here you see the power off drooping of the ailerons. It seems like the left aileron was deflected upwards a bit when the other one was down and then the power was cut off... They both drooped afterwards, not equally far... The left spoiler in front of the left aileron is up a bit in combination with the left aileron - these spoilers take over most of the upward movement a 'normal'aileron would perform... So, many ways to place the ailerons, flaps and spoilers on your kit..! Many happy modelling hours! Piet Bouma The Netherlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusbke Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 so basicly i have to restart the whole thing and make the inner flap things level again . Damn and i realy liked the way it looked however I based myself on this picture I have in the airdoc book on the f-4f I know its not the best quality i took a picture of the photo in the book (yeah I know ) However when would this picture been taken post- or pre flight Like I said I'm way over my head on this matter just trying to make a good model accurate would be nice too, I'm not the repulsive rivet counterbut I still like it when a model is technical "correct" If you know what I mean. I can still change evereything here nothis glued yet so any help and more comments welcome Greetz STB Frederick Jacobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Well isn't that the great thing about models right there? You can do them in any configuration you like! I used to do all my 1/72 F-4's with l/e and t/e flaps down because I liked the look of them better that way too. But now with more research under my belt and working mainly in 1/48 scale I couldn't do it - it'd annoy me after a while That's why when I eventally do my 'piece de resistance' F-4K it'll have to be canopy locked down, all flaps down, leg up and ready to launch. They do look impressively spiky that way! So then I'll also have to do another, just to have an open cockpit and maybe wings folded. In the photo you show, I'd guess there's a crew ready to go as there are no ground connections visible. Flaps down is remarkably uncommon but not absolutely impossible. Maybe a passing Phantom tech can contribute a definitive answer. Have you seen Pierre's (Scalephantomfixer) 1/32 F-4S build thread at: http://imageevent.com/scalephantomphixer/m...132f4smag41deta He goes into quite some detail with the wing and its attachments, but then it's a maintenance scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete63 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Stusbke, You wrote: "so basicly i have to restart the whole thing and make the inner flap things level again"... No, you don't - that's the fun part - build it like in the Airdoc series picture; This only means that the power is still off... You can see the left wing spoiler deflected upward a bit, which means that the left aileron had been in the slightly up position before engine shut-down (or before a new engine start, if you wish). After shut-down it will have drooped to the position visible in the Airdoc pic - some 10 degrees..? This also means that the right aileron had already been pointing down a bit (lets say 10 degrees) and will even have drooped somewhat further down after engine shut-down... (lets say some 20 degrees...) The large flaps are not interconnected to the ailerons, so they can be built in the drooped position or if you wish, in the "up"(retracted) position... Some pilots just don't bother to park their aircraft with the flaps neatly retracted - they leave them in the position they're in at engine shut-down... So, it's up to you - having seen the photographic evidence, you can almost build these flaps and ailerons in any which way you like... Happy flapping and rolling! Piet Bouma The Netherlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusbke Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 You wrote This only means that the power is still off This would be the way i wanne build this one just waiting for her crew for the next flight Greetz STB Frederick Jacobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Colvin Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I thought when the inboard flaps were dropped, so were the slats??? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Careful - leading edge slats and leading edge flaps are 2 different things on Phantoms With L/E flaps, they're connected to the boundary layer control system and operate in conjunction with the BLC rear flaps. The passage below from http://www.topfighters.com/fighterplanes/p.../closelook.html explains how they operate. (Note 'flaperons' is the groovy name given to the interconnected drooping ailerons, but that applies to later Navy versions only. ALL land versions have ailerons used for roll control only). The Phantom did not have traditional ailerons that could tilt up and down to provide roll control. It instead used "flaperons", flaplike underwing surfaces outboard of the main flaps. The flaperons, like the flaps, could only tilt down, but worked in conjunction with overwing spoilers to provide roll control. The Phantom was also fitted with leading-edge flaps. The trailing-edge flaps and the flaperons deflected 60 degrees, while the inboard leading-edge flaps deflected 30 degrees. In addition, the aircraft featured a "boundary layer control (BLC)" or "blown flaps" scheme, in which engine bleed air was blown over the flaps to increase their effectiveness at low speed, improving low-speed handling for carrier landings. The Phantom was one of the first operational aircraft to use BLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusbke Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Ok guys I made some progress I got round to pick up all my courage and start on the slats an in progress picture close up on the right side all done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusbke Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 I also changed some detail on the bottom of the tail still need to replace the top side of it a picture of it I also made the parts to make the splitterplates full again as requested in the tweak list Then I also sanded the triangles away on the stabilo's, still need to rescribe them and replace some rivets Well thats all for now I still have a lot to do before this ones finisched Greetz STB Frederick Jacobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impatient Pete Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The flaps and slats too? Nice. I think I may try to make some intake blades today. I am toying with making the front blade disc spin. Have you seen Pierres DC-3? I think that would be sweet for a jet to begin to spool up with sound. Oh yah right. Anyway, looking good dude. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Pete, Very nice detailing work thus far. I look forward to seeing much more of this. Please continue to post as you progress. if it isnt too much too ask. Please explain how you do things as well. Its a big help. Thanks, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impatient Pete Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Pete, Very nice detailing work thus far. I look forward to seeing much more of this. Please continue to post as you progress. if it isnt too much too ask. Please explain how you do things as well. Its a big help. Thanks, Geoff Hey, this is Fredericks build! Mine is the RF-4B. I'm sure you just made a slip of the tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusbke Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Pete, Very nice detailing work thus far. I look forward to seeing much more of this. Please continue to post as you progress. if it isnt too much too ask. Please explain how you do things as well. Its a big help. Thanks, Geoff Well i have some more pics in progress I'll see what I can make up later no problem, If you want more info on how to please dont hessitate and ask I'm more then willing to share. Hey, this is Fredericks build! Mine is the RF-4B. I'm sure you just made a slip of the tongue. Well what would you expect the plastic looks the same well almost and there are quite few phantoms in progress now anyway yeah im doing the flaps and slats too it looks way meaner with them all out and the way I wanna put her eventualy this is going to add that little extra to it Greetz STB FredericK Jacobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusbke Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Well time for another update but its a good one and a verry sad(read bad) one at the same time GOOD I finisched the stabilos and the new rivets on her rear end a few more details here and there and that part of the bird is done I also remade two triangles on the bottom side. As the few ref pics I have off the bird I'm going to build has these too but only on the bottom side? Anyway at this point I would like to point out that I've come accross a few pics wich clearly show the triangles on the stabilo's so please check ref pictures to see If they are there or not. anyway here's a pic of them rescribed and new rivets Also the new placed rivets around the exhaust area thanx for the pic pete BAD I FUBAR'd the nose completly with experimenting with glue thus I need to restart all over on the cockpit now at first I didnt wan't to now I need to The cockpits got ruined because I dropped something on them while I was trying to save the nose halves Yeah you know some days you just wish you didnt start at all anyway I came this close to toss her all in the bin but I'm sticking with it and get er done Greetz STB Frederick Jacobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now