Chek

Despite its legendary, if not mythical status, we've been missing a kit of the Farley Fruitbat for decades now.

I'd agree with leaving it as is to preserve any value it might have.
 
It has elements of the X-34 shown below (although that dates from 1999)
 

 
with a tail arrangement reminiscent of the X-24 series below (the Northrop M2 version being featured in the 6 Million Dollar Man intro crash) which would be from the mid '60s.
 
.

I'd agree with leaving it as is to preserve any value it might have.
 
It has elements of the X-34 shown below (although that dates from 1999)
 

 
with a tail arrangement reminiscent of the X-24 series below (the Northrop M2 version being featured in the 6 Million Dollar Man intro crash) which would be from the mid '60s.
 
.

I'd agree with leaving it as is to preserve any value it might have.
 
It has elements of the X-34 shown below (although that dates from 1999)
 

 
with a tail arrangement reminiscent of the X-24 series below (the Northrop M2 version being featured in the 6 Million Dollar Man intro crash) which would be from the mid '60s.
 
.

Cough... Cough....
 
BTW did I mention.......
 
Winter Harrier-1 by Tony Taylor, on Flickr
 
Tbird Harrier by Tony Taylor, on Flickr

The questions are never enough. )) Well, for this conversion i choos to stick to the unclassified technical drawings published on yf.23.net, for example. According to this scheme, there is an angle of 1.5 degrees according to the centerline, per engine. I could only speculate what the real reasons are, but undoubtly they are related to the IR signature reduction. It`s better to concentrate the exhaust paths in a smaller area(path) behind the plane, rather than dispersing the 2 exhaust paths in opposite directions. The temperature is already reduced by the IR absorbing tiles and the other tools for IR reduction. 
And secondly, the aerodynamics. The entire nacelles should not be perfectly paralleled to each other like on the prototype version. So the ends of the nacelles (which are the nozzles) are the natural continuations of the nacelles, and are respectively slightly angled to each other. 
 
At least these are my thoughts. I`m not an expert in this kind of area, but i think i know the basics.

Very intriguing re-design work, Milan. Is there any reason for the converging exhausts (apart from looks)?
And what happens at the air dam you've created by bringing them together? Or is the centre body going to be brought up level with the tops of the exhaust tunnels? So many questions - I must learn some patience....

Very nicely finished model - the colour tones, the semi-visible older markings, the metal work - all look great.
 
I've seen photos of other 497 TFS 'planes in a very similar condition to the way your model depicts, and the amazing thing is how well they clean up after the battle.
I've a photo of your '7683 flying with the Oregon ANG in 1987, in the two-tone Hill grey scheme looking clean as a whistle and still bearing its MiG kill star.

Looking nice F's... although, while I appreciate using washes to bring out detail, those ACES II logos don't just look dirty, they're looking positively smoke damaged.
I venture no aircrew would accept their survival equipment looking in such a state.
I'd suggest at the very least cleaning those logos.

Milan I'll just mention this as you're at the point my 1/72 YF-23 stalled.
 
As with the HB kit, the Italeri intakes needed extending and modding, and due to the layout and angles, getting two symmetrical openings wasn't easy
So I used my phone wire and superglue method to attach two duplicate wire outlines. The interiors and exteriors can be worked back from them and smoothly blended in
 
Unfortunately, I sanded them razor sharp before discovering better photos showing there should be a blunter, a rounded lip. I just haven;t had the opportunity to re-do them using thicker brass wire. The boundary layer bleed hole grid squares will probably get destroyed, so I hope I can find a suitable textured heavy foil again. I can't recall if it was from a butter or yoghurt packaging now. But with adding the pre-bent wire shapes you can be sure the openings on both sides match perfectly. Just remember they're mirrors of each other if you do.

Hi Milan,
 
One tip I can offer at this point, which I learned when making the Contrail XB-70 vac many years ago, is to first lightly sand your edges
to get them perfectly straight.
 
Then anneal some landline phone wire in a gas flame, then pull it through a pad of wire wool to strip off the chrome leaving bright copper wire.It can then be rolled flat (the heating takes the spring out of it) between a steel ruler and a glass surface (or anything hard and flat enough). Then superglue it to the 'ledge' you've sanded on the edge of your model part. 
 
After five minutes or so, your edge can then be wet sanded to a good, clean straight edge (or even a knife edge if you need it sharp like on a Valkyrie) which will be perfectly straight and consistent, and won't chip or go wavey like non-metal reinforced edges can sometimes do.
 
You can of course duplicate curves from your drawings where required, or just butt joint the wires at angled corners.
 
HTH

Great build of a great 'plane in a great colour scheme. Congratulations!

Hi Milan,
 
One tip I can offer at this point, which I learned when making the Contrail XB-70 vac many years ago, is to first lightly sand your edges
to get them perfectly straight.
 
Then anneal some landline phone wire in a gas flame, then pull it through a pad of wire wool to strip off the chrome leaving bright copper wire.It can then be rolled flat (the heating takes the spring out of it) between a steel ruler and a glass surface (or anything hard and flat enough). Then superglue it to the 'ledge' you've sanded on the edge of your model part. 
 
After five minutes or so, your edge can then be wet sanded to a good, clean straight edge (or even a knife edge if you need it sharp like on a Valkyrie) which will be perfectly straight and consistent, and won't chip or go wavey like non-metal reinforced edges can sometimes do.
 
You can of course duplicate curves from your drawings where required, or just butt joint the wires at angled corners.
 
HTH

I'm nitpicking, but a MLU is NOT the same animal as a Block 20.  A jet that received the MLU upgrade retains its original Block status.  A Block 20 is a new-build jet.  

It was only when I saw the Italeri 1/72 models of the YF-22 and YF-23 side by side back in the '90s that I appreciated how much more enclosed volume the YF-22 Raptor-to-be had, which is an important consideration for stealth designs.
 
I agree the Northrop design is much prettier and more interesting, and as Jennings alludes, PAV-2 (87-0801, the light grey one) was the fastest of the four ATFs in terms of supercruise capability (Mach 1.8 without reheat). Although top speed was artificially red-lined at Mach 2 for all the ATF airframes as the stealth coatings then used began to delaminate above that, and none of the contenders employed the vari-ramp inlets needed for Mach 2+ flight..
 
What's interesting to me is that Northrop's FB-23 derivative has eliminated the deeply sculpted topside 'valleys and hills' of the original and embraced internal volume as a virtue just like the YF-22.
 

Chek,  thanks for the photo and information.  Also like the paint scheme on the F-16 in picture. 
Dan

Hi guys. The cutting and sawing started... i got a rotary tool, which facilitated the cuts quite a lot. Indeed, the major recreation of the new shape is done, but still not finished for taking beautiful pics. The intakes were widened, the engine faces too, and then i cut the intakes for easier mounting and further reshapement:
 

 

 
The rudders: their profiles are thinned with a couple of mm from the bases. This is how they looked before, as they were oob:
 

 
After instalation of small PE pieces to keep the corners sharp and edgy:
 

 
Now they are glued, so now i have to extend them a little bit more too, further thin the profiles by scratching and sanding the outer sides, sharpen the edges, and will take comparison pics. Thanks. Cheers!

Dan, I looked at the two very hi res photos I have of that area and can say that even at extreme magnification (10x the photo below) and even with extreme brightening the rectangular recess is all that's visible. Certainly no obvious projections within. Much more prominent by far would be the serrated panel line on the edging of the end cap.
 

thank you all will take a lookwhen the kit arrivd
i think next week it will be here
 
Mark

I think the UB was the first introduction of the Trumpeter “fixes†(copies), so they all had them. It was later batches of the single seater boxing that supposedly had the “fixed†parts, however there was nothing on the box to differentiate them from the earlier batches with the original parts from what I remember.

Apparently a number of F-4F anniversary schemes with blue. 
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/132128-revell-04785-f-4f-phantom-ii
 
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-Phantom-II/2453833/L?qsp=eJwtjDsOwkAMBa8SuYYCgSjSQUELBRewdl8%2BENiVbSmsotwds6IbzXuahUJ6Gz52LxnUkoIlDLShzMIvpXahJ8qcJDrTZXvomgcPgsYvmsTOxXVkwykEZEP8%2B6tEyG%2BChlrrvb5zgNwq0/7oPo6aJ64NGI8TresXDswv8g%3D%3D
 
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-Phantom-II/2418991?qsp=eJwtjDsOwkAMBa8SuYYCgSjSQUELBRewdl8%2BENiVbSmsotwds6IbzXuahUJ6Gz52LxnUkoIlDLShzMIvpXahJ8qcJDrTZXvomgcPgsYvmsTOxXVkwykEZEP8%2B6tEyG%2BChlrrvb5zgNwq0/7oPo6aJ64NGI8TresXDswv8g%3D%3D
 
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-Phantom-II/157484/L?qsp=eJwtjDsOwkAMBa8SuYYCgSjSQUELBRewdl8%2BENiVbSmsotwds6IbzXuahUJ6Gz52LxnUkoIlDLShzMIvpXahJ8qcJDrTZXvomgcPgsYvmsTOxXVkwykEZEP8%2B6tEyG%2BChlrrvb5zgNwq0/7oPo6aJ64NGI8TresXDswv8g%3D%3D
 
https://www.aviationmegastore.com/mdd-f4f-phantom-3849-luftwaffe-50-years-f-4-phantom--35-jahre-f-4f-2008-48-040-syhart-decal-syhart48-040-aircraft-scale-modelling-decals/product/?action=prodinfo&art=114945
 
Of course, it's easy to find pictures of aircraft in special blue schemes. The challenge may be finding decals for them.

I don't have the kit, but as far as I remember, the answer is 'maybe, maybe not (so much)'.
The Zacto intakes are works of art whose presence in your world will enhance your life. But they're expensive, relative to the kit's cost.
 
The hedged reply is because the original Trumpy intakes were travesties, the location being about the only thing right about them.
In what I believe was and still might be a sore point for Chris, Trumpeter revised their intakes in later issues of the kit and even copied some of the features Chris included in his resin intakes. While still not as good as the Zacto intakes, the later issued revised kits are less in need of the upgrade than the original issue. While I'm not 100% sure, to complicate matters I don't believe Trumpeter changed their product numbers so you can't tell if you've got an early or late boxing.
 
As you already have the kit, the best way to tell is probably to tack the intake parts together and compare them to the photos on Zacto's website.
Or you may have noticed if they look too thin and more oblong than they should compared to photos of the aircraft.
 
The nosecone is worth adding too (as are the pylons etc. etc.) but the correctly tapered radome makes a big difference to the final look.

This is for a conversion of the Tamiya kit but you can extract the
basics from it what as to what you'll need.
( I did not write this up )
 
Spitfire Mk VIII conversion from Tamiya Mk IXc.

Changing the key differences between the two airframes will require the modeller to convert the Tamiya kit.
1. Retractable tail wheel fitted to Mk VIII – conversion (Ron's Resin Retractable option)
• Glue both rear fuselage parts to their respective fuselage halves. (it will be easier to work on them in place)
• Approx 17 -18mm aft the transport joint, (angled panel line from fin to bottom of fuselage in front of tailplane) there Is a panel line that runs from under the tailplane to the bottom of the fuselage on both sides. On the Mk IX and the kit this is broken by the rectangular access panel. Fill this panel and re-scribe the vertical panel line on both sides. It is parallel to the rudder hinge.
• In front of this panel line there is a horizontal panel line and circular access panel, these can be left in place.
• Measure 1.5 mm up the vertical panel line from this and mark, measure 5.5mm up the rudder post (rear of the fuselage) and mark.
• Join the two marks with a scribed panel line – this is the tail-wheel door hinge line. It should rise up toward the rear not run parallel to the lower fuselage line.
• The tail-wheel doors sit in middle of this, around 1 to 1.5mm from the vertical panel line and the rudder post. Trace the outline of the doors onto the fuselage halves and scribe them in. (If you plan to pose your spitfire in flight stop here.)
• On the port side there is a small (4mm) circular access panel above this hinge line and behind the vertical panel line. It is not present on the STBD side. Scribe this in it has 6 screws to hold it in place.
• Make a “D†shaped bulkhead to fit in the fuselage just in front of the tail-wheel bay opening. Make a roof for the bay as well.
• In the roof toward the rear of the bay drill two holes to form an oval. Fill this oval with filler or miliput and push the tail wheel into it to form the mudguard.
• Scribe or cut away the door openings on both sides of the fuselage.
• Fit the “D†shaped bulkhead and roof to one fuselage half, tape the halves together and drill an opening for the tail wheel.
• Build the kit as normal and fit the gear after painting. The colours of the bay could have been interior grey green, aluminium or under surface colour. If you want you can fit the door closing links on the aft side of the tail-wheel strut. These pulled the doors closed as the strut retracted.

2. Leading edge fuel tanks fitted – Scribe tanks and filler on upper wing.
• On the upper wing there is the cut out for the fitting of the cannon barrels. Mark a line from the inner edge of this back to the full span transverse panel line. (Main spar)
• From the point where this line intersects the main spar measure 21.5mm inboard and mark.
• From this mark draw a line forward as 90 degrees from the main spar panel line to the leading edge
• Draw a line 1.5mm in front of the main spar panel line between the two marks. This is the leading edge fuel tank.
• Check that all angles are square and scribe the tank in.
• There is a fuel filler on the outer side of the tank just back from the cannon cut out. 3 - 4 mm in diameter
• There aren't any panel lines for the tank under the wing as shown on most plans.
• Scribe the panel join along the leading edge of the wing. There are also rivets/screws (?) along this line

3. Downward Ident light moved from centreline to port wing on Mk VIII - conversion
• In the lower wing just inboard and in front of the pitot tube Tamiya have a circular molding for the downward ident light.
• Open this up with a drill bit the same size as the lens for the centreline light. Back with a piece of thick card or milliput.
• Use the drill to form a concave reflector by twisting it in the hole. Drill a fine hole in the centre and add a piece of stretched sprue to simulate a light bulb.
• Taking a drill bit the next size down, wrap a piece of fine wire around the shank and number of times, slide this wire off and with a fine knife cut the wire across from the inside out so it forms rings. These will allow you to space out the height of the lens so it is flush with the wing
• Put a ring in the light and tack it in place, test the lens, if it is not flush or slightly proud of the wing use another spacer until it is
• Paint the interior of the lamp silver, fit and glue the lens. (If it is slightly proud sand it back level and polish) Use a “clear orange†to tint it. Fill the light in the wing centre.
 
4. Shorter span ailerons fitted to Mk VIII – conversion
• Cut the outer tip of the ailerons B5 & B6 off at the step. (Where the lower ailerons join.)
• Build the ailerons as per instructions from there.
• The small piece should be glued to the wing and the span-wise panel line filled and sanded. (Don't lose them and remember they will be handed. A piece of 5 thou card may be needed to pad for the aileron gap)

Modelling enhancements and kit pieces to use from Tamiya kit
1. Add leather padding to back of the seat.
2. Don't fit the flare rack to the front of the seat (F48)
3. The artificial horizon supplied in the kit is wrong and should be black. Replace with aftermarket decal or just paint the relevant instrument black scribe a fine line on a slight angle (Represents the artificial horizon) and paint white so the line shows.
4. Fit the two Hooks to the underside of the wing centre section for overload tank jettison. (Tamiya part J2)
a. These locate just inboard and in front of the small inner flap. There are holes in the wing to allow this.
5. Fit IFF aerial under STBD wing. (Tamiya Part A5 & Metal Part B10)
6. Australian Mk VIII's were probably only fitted with the reflector gunsight (L11) not the gyro gunsight.
7. Australian MK VIII's had 4 spoke wheels (CC2), but had both splined and torque link oleos fitted – (Check your references I can't exactly pin down when the change over happened but it was either in the high A58 - 400's or low 500's)
a. A58 – 300's to high 400's had splined oleo's (CC 8 & 9 covers and don't fit the torque links)
b. A58 – 500's – 600s had torque link oleos (CC 6 & 7 and fit torque link. Also file the U/C opening to allow for the torque link to fit In the U/C bay)
8. Fit large balance elevators ( C1 & 2 + B3 & 15)
9. Fit pointed rudder (D1 & 2)
10. Fit small blister cannon covers
11. Don't fit a headrest these were phased out during the MK V/MK IX production run.
12. Don't fit the nav light on the fuselage spine behind the aerial
13. Most Mk VIII's would have an overload tank (J4) fitted for ops. See steps 65 & 67.
14. Oxy bottle on Stbd side mounted further aft in long Merlin spitfires for C/G reasons, close to the hatch on the rear Stbd side. There is also no oxygen hose provided in the kit. It was prominent in the cockpit usually clipped to the stbd side when not in use. This ran from a connector (oblong black box) just behind F11, forward on the stbd side of the fuselage. It could be draped onto the seat, clipped to the upper cockpit wall when not in use.
15. The Voltage regulator (F24 & 25) was not fitted to the rear of part F19 in Mk VIII's. I am not sure where it was installed.
16. Fit the Coffman starter bulge (AA2) to the Stbd engine cowl (U3) See step 57.
 

Hello Chek,
thanks for the interest.
 
Actually this area was the very reason I've started my deep and long research.
Before that, I've tried to replicate the fuselage in 3D from the profiles and 3-view drawings (I think I have all of them).
But I just couldn't get it right.
 
And, as I've been succesful in my research, I now have the dimensions and positions of the Blast Tubes.
Yes, they are assymetrical. 
 
But I'm still not sure how would this apply to the Revell model.
If the (complex) shape of the fuselage is not correct, the openings would not be correct anyway.
The positions would be right when looking at the model "face to face", but the openings still could look ugly.
I don't know, I've never tried it.

 
Here is my picture of this area made in Duxford:

 
And here's a simple rendering of it as I have it now:

 
If there is interest, I may get a piece of the Revell 1/32 model and try to put the blast tubes right.
But, to say the truth, I don't expect the shape of the fuselage to be correct.
 
And I expect this to be the hard part of my 1/12 model too.
 
If you are interested in more details, just send me a message.
I'm willing to help, if I can.
 
Juraj

An interesting project Juraj.
 
It's of special interest to me because the nose is the same area that my 1/32 Revell Beaufighter build stalled at.
 
In your research, have you obtained the position dimensions for the cannon installation that you could share?
 
As you probably are aware, the cannon troughs on the underside of the nose are asymmetrical due to allowing breech access, as the Hispano guns are not left or right handed.  The best illustration I've found is the rebuild of A8-328 which gives enough information to estimate with, but if you have actual dimensions, that would be much better. Here's the photo I was working from.