Heinkel He 111

[Roy vd M.]

Hi all,

 

Just received a very fast response from Mr U. Hafner of Luftfahrt-Archif Hafner, on a question whether they have any blueprints available for the Heinkel 111. Their website should be given a look (or two!) as it features a vast list of manuals, drawings and other information, reproduced, regarding 1928-1945 Luftwaffe airplanes and accessories. The 111 alone is featured 30 times (!) in downloadable PDFs and in paper. Prices seem very reasonable. If there are blueprints, this (or a museum) would be the place to find them. Mr Hafner answered my question as follows:

 

“(…) Von der He 111 gibt es leider keine Zeichnungen mehr. Nirgends! In keinem Museum, in keinem Archiv. 

 

So ein Zeichnungssatz für die He 111 würde aus mehreren tausend Zeichnungen bestehen, und das wäre eigentlich unbezahlbar.

 

Aus den Handbüchern und Ersatzteillisten erhalten Sie umfangreice Informationen, aber meistens ohne Maßangaben. Das bedeutet, dass Sie für ihre Detailkonstruktion sogenannte Referenzmaße benötigen die dann in die Konstruktion umgesetzt werden müssen. (…)â€

 

This means that no blueprints have survived of the 111. Compliments to the brave people at Gardermoen and elsewhere for attempting to restore this massive a plane with so many details without the best of reference materials available. At least I now know that I'll have to work with the pictures I have and the pictures and videos I'll make when I'll visit London next month. 

 

Thanks to Mr Hafner for the quick and very clear answer! Do have a look at http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/

[Roy vd M.]

Nobody have any idea how the door mechanism would / could have worked? 

 

Even if you have just a theory, that's more than welcome!

 

[Roy vd M.]

Hmm... should probably have posted a question about a B17, Bf109 or P51. He 111 seems to have lost its momentum.

 

I'm very happy with all compliments from you guys, it really boosts my motivation, but I'm slightly disappointed that nobody seems to take the trouble to answer to the door-question, even if it'd only be a guess. 

Edited January 21, 2014 by Roy vd M.

[Loic]

Looks like they are sliding on rails to me but I am not sure ...

[Roy vd M.]

Thanks Loic! Really appreciate your ongoing input!

 

Yes they are sliding on rails. What puzzles me is the four wheels on the corners of both top and bottom rails. They seem to be a pulley system or so, with cables running between the wheels. 

 

My GUESS is that the pilot or the bomber / gunner would have a handle (most probably in the top column) to open the door from a distance. And in some technical way probably the door would slide back open automatically? Springs? I'm really puzzled, that's why I can use any help you guys can give me

 

Oh yeah one more thing...  it appears that the four corner wheels are positioned in front of the door. Strange... must have a reason.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Roy vd M.

[Loic]

Could be what you said or, a simply pulley system that when you move either doors, the other one moves accordingly...

Are you 100% sure it has to do with the doors? Could also be something completly different ?

I can not see wheels on the left side (but the pic does not help much)

[Harrison90]

I think its a system like the blinds the are on a pulley system. Like in this picture: http://myoddrawings.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/stage-curtains.jpg

 

And I think the four corners of pulleys may just be so that from any side the door could be opened, or just to balance the sliding motion.

 

I think. Just what it looks like to me.

 

Cheers!

Edited January 22, 2014 by Harrison90

[Roy vd M.]

Loic and Harrison, thank you guys for sharing your thoughts. This is very helpful, I think you are on the right track! 

 

Could be a system just like this: 

 

 

But then with two parallel systems, one top and one below. 

 

One thing I notice now is that also the right door in the picture seems to have been dispositioned from its slot. 

 

Another thing I notice is that the two wheels at the bottom seem slightly further away from each other than the wheels on top. 

 

@Loic: I'm not totally sure whether there supposed to be pulleys on the left side, but do notice the door cutout at the top left side, apparently preventing the door from bumping into the pulley wheel. A similar cutout was done at the top right side. 

[thammond65]

Thanks Loic! Really appreciate your ongoing input!

 

Yes they are sliding on rails. What puzzles me is the four wheels on the corners of both top and bottom rails. They seem to be a pulley system or so, with cables running between the wheels. 

 

My GUESS is that the pilot or the bomber / gunner would have a handle (most probably in the top column) to open the door from a distance. And in some technical way probably the door would slide back open automatically? Springs? I'm really puzzled, that's why I can use any help you guys can give me

 

Oh yeah one more thing...  it appears that the four corner wheels are positioned in front of the door. Strange... must have a reason.

I don't think the wheels are in front of the door. The bottom right one looks to be in the same plane, the top right has been knocked out of alignment - the top of the door has gone to far to the right The left hand one has come its runners and fallen to the left and downwards. My guess is that its a system that allows both doors to open when you move one of them, possibly with a control in the cockpit as well.

[Roy vd M.]

Thanks Thammond, very pleased with you three's input... 

 

Just took an up-close look at the other picture I have:

 

 

Judging from that picture I think that the top right part is in position. The lower right part has been derailed. As regards the left door I agree with you. 

 

Hope that this research isn't considered as nagging or boring, I just want this to be as correct as possible. And it gives me joy to try to reconstruct this, especially with you guys' help. 

[scvrobeson]

Really enjoying your build so far. The corrections to the door look very nice.

 

 

One question though, what color are you planning to paint the cockpit in? It looked like the earlier progress photos had it in RLM02, but I thought all bombers were in RLM66.  Again, not a criticism, just a question for your build. You can paint it however you want to

 

 

 

 

Matt 

[Roy vd M.]

Hi Matt, what I understand from different sources is that RLM02 was used until 1941. The plane I'm trying to reproduce was built in 1940. 

 

See e.g. http://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/color/cockpits/german.htm

 

If you have any source saying that there was an exception for bombers, please let me know because I'll start the painting (of the bomb bay) soon...!

 

Thanks in advance..

[Roy vd M.]

Here the one person says early/late (before/from 1941): RLM02/RLM66

 

And someone else says that that's wrong. That the P's seem to have RLM66...

 

Again someone else: "

 

A friend of mine had a book about Luftwaffe colours, and it had in it a copy of an RLM directive from mid 1940 (if I remember correctly) stating some thing along the lines of... "...all areas of the cockpit visible to the pilot are to be painted RLM 66 Schwarzgrau..."

 

now I'm starting to doubt the RLM02...

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34761-luftwaffe-cockpit-colours/

 

But then another site says:

 

He111 Al B1 C1 Dl El Fl G1 J1 Pl H-1 thru H-5 series: Cockpit areas are RLM Green-Gray 02 
He111 H 6 thru H 23/R/Z(zwilling) series: Cockpit areas are RLM Black-Gray 66 

 

http://www.swannysmodels.com/Painting.html

Edited January 22, 2014 by Roy vd M.

[Roy vd M.]

If I don't find a definite answer I think I'll (again) use RLM02 because there are more sources that point in that direction than RLM66, and I think it's a colour with more shading / detailing potential than RLM66. 

Edited January 22, 2014 by Roy vd M.

[D.B. Andrus]

Hi Roy

 

Here's are shots of a crashed 111 in France 1940. (Looks to have shade 66 in cockpit):

 

 

 

HTH,

 

D.B.