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Monogram/Revell F3F-3


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#16 Rato

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 05:46 AM

Sorry for my late reply. Just returned from my office at the university (2:00 AM)... Nothing easy at work these days...

Dr. Metz just saved me the work of finding out where that drawing came from. Thanks doc. As for what Ray pointed out, structurally there's nothing wrong in making the aileron ending between ribs. Just a matter of suitable reinforcements. It's a better choice if the hinge points are located at the end of the aileron, but that's not the case of the F3F.
As a rule, I don't rely much in the In Action drawings, but it seems to me (backing myself up with photos) that not only the rudder is undersized, but also the fin, although to a less extent (not visible in the drawings I posted before). Personally, I can live with the kit's rudder (but don't ask me tomorrow).
I dug some from "The Best of Wylam Model Airplane News - Book 1", which refer to the F3F-1, so I can't check the rudder. I hope these drawings can be of further help, but one of them confirm what Ray said about the ailerons. On the other hand, I found a couple of photos that seems to indicate the ailerons inner edge ending between ribs (difficult to distinguish clearly).

Wylam1.jpg

Wylam2.jpg

Pete, the scale conversion is quite simple. The wingspan of the F3F was 9.75 m or 9750 mm. In 1/32, it should be 9750/32 = 305 mm (approx.). Measuring the In Action drawing wingspan you'll find 161 mm. In order to have a 1/32 drawing, you have to enlarge it by 305/161 = 1.89, that is, 89% larger. When doing this, always use the largest dimension you have to minimize the errors, and enlarge all views using the same factor.

Aha! Ray is correct, here's a pic of the F3F-3 at the NMNA-Pensacola (I guess) - the aileron ends on a rib line:

1068265757.575.jpeg

Now, if a fine soul volunteers to count how many ribs are there, it would be mostly appreciated... just to count one more rivet, rib, I mean.

And doc, if I had 10% of your memory, I would be a much happier man!
Rogério "Rato" Marczak
LSP Assoc. Editor


"The Bones Shall Rise Today..."

#17 DougN

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 02:34 PM

I counted 9 panels between the inboard edge of the aileron and the start of the curved area in the center section on the P-Cola bird. Looking at the kit photos, I counted 6 panels in that same area. So it would seem that adding the aforementioned 3 panels in that area would make it correct!

Now I just have to find a couple of those kits and I will be all set to build one! :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Doug

#18 rock1947a

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 05:33 PM

Hi everyone.
I couldn't ask for a more helpful, knowledgeable, and entusiastic response to my original plea for help. I'm especially indebted to Mike in calif, Astro32, Dr. Metz, Rato, Ray, and DougN (as well as anyone else who's been following this thread and might contribute further suggestions, comments, or opinions).
Pete

For those interested in building and/or improving this 40-some-odd-year-old kit, I'll summarize what I've learned in just a couple of days from the kind and generous Forum Members. There are probably other usefull accessories and references, but I'm listing the ones I'm aware of.

Kit:
There have been several re-issues of the original Monogram 1/32 F3F-3 kit. The latest I'm aware of is Revell/Monogram #85-5836. Although it's not curently widely available from internet vendors, it frequently surfaces on eBay and a couple recently sold for $10.00 - $20.00 + postage/handling.

Accessories:
Note: These products may be available from other vendors, but I'm including the URLs for the manufacturers.

1. Yellow-Wings Decals #32-003
http://yellow-wingsd...;products_id=78

2. Lone Star Models LSM 0286 F3F-3 cockpit (I haven't seen the contents yet, but will post pictures when
delivered.)
http://www.lonestarmodels.com/

3. Vector Engine #32004
http://www.neomega-r...or/american.htm

4. Master Details USN/USMC pre-WW2 Aviator #32013
http://www.ventersae...e.com/32013.htm

References:

Grumman Biplane Fighters in Action: Squadron/Signal #160 ISBN 0-89747-353-1
The drawing of the F3F-2 on page 37 of this book needs to be enlarged with a printer setting of 189%
as kindly mentioned by Rato in the above thread.

Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum:
Peter Westburg Scale View Drawing Grumman F3F-2 DD-0058462.4 (3 sheets) - I haven't seen these
drawings, but just wanted to list them for your information.
http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/ (search for f3f)

#19 Rato

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 07:58 PM

There's absolutely no need to thank, Pete. As I said, I have interest in this kit, too, so I'm interested in everything this thread can bring out.
I still think the Hasegawa P-12E is an easier kit for those interested in an accurate classical bipe. My only doubt now - referring to both kits, the F4F and the P-12E - is how to keep the raised rivets without spending an arm and a leg in those Archer dry-transfer rivet lines.
I also found something here that can be added to your list:

Superscale decal sheet #32-4 - Grumman F3F-1, 2, 3; VF-3, VF-4, VF-5, VF-6 and VF-7

It's and old sheet, but brings emblems for for all squadrons above (not all were equipped with the dash 3), generic Bu.Numbers and insignias.

Good luck, and thanks for your interest, too.
Rogério "Rato" Marczak
LSP Assoc. Editor


"The Bones Shall Rise Today..."

#20 LSP_Mike

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 08:20 PM

Pete, as Rato said, no need to thank. It sounds like a master of a wing, done in resin, would go a long way towards solving some of the issues w/ this bird. Yellowwings is going a long way to revive interest in these planes. When the pit arrives, some pics would be appreciated. The fit on the Bf2C-1 is great, and the pit is indicative of what needs to be there, just poorly represented. I think my next build will be the P-26. I have some good pics of the 'pit, and may do it like the bf2c dash. If I do, maybe I'll play with casting some.

in progress:

 1/32 Hase Me-109G2/R6
1/35 Su-85/ winter- attach to base
1/32 DH-9a USMC- Delivered to Flying Leathernecks Museum, MCAS Miramar
1/32 Mig-3:winter paint and weathering: in progress and base
Yacht America need some parts.

I'm so far behind, I think I'm in first place...
Yes, I built models when I was a kid too.... no they're not toys....


#21 rock1947a

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:00 AM

PB180124.jpg
Hi again everyone. It's been a while, but the Lone Star F3F cockpit was delivered this week. I took photos of the instructions and parts, but the upload of the parts photo failed because the file is larger than the available space. I thought I used the correct resolution stipulated in the wesite instructions when I took the photos. I think the I can psot the instruction images.

Below is a short description of this set. I'll try to figure out how to get the photos posted soon. Any suggestions would be welcome.

There is a pretty clear 2-sided letter-size page of instructions that has drawings of the parts and indications of their correct locations. They also provide instructions for modifications to the kit and update set parts.

13 parts
Instrument Panel with recessed nstruments. The dial indicator needles are embossed an each instrument.

Right and left cockit walls with numerous switches, knobs, wheels, levers, etc. I haven't determined how accurate these are, but they look good enough for my purposes without much modification.

Control Column with wiring.

Cockpit floor with some wiring, instrumentation, and oxygen bottle molded on. The instructions clearly describe how to add some small rod to add the provided control column over the floor recess.

Rear cockpit bulkhead with seat and head cushion molded on it. The area on both sides of the seat are open, which allows viewing behind the bulkhead. The seat is very thin and has the seat belts molded on the right and left sides.

Rudder pedals and operating mechanisms. One of the rudder pedals is not fully cast on my set, but enough of it is there to all a little cyanoacryate gel to fill it out easily.

Right side Radio Compartment Wall and Floor for behind the cockpit with well-defined electronics and radios molded onto them.

Radio Compartment Access Panel for right side of fuselage.

2 replacement wheels that are well cast and much wider than the origina kit parts. The outer wheel cover is complete. The locating hole for the landing gear axles don'g go all the way through them.

1 plug to cover the left side landing gear operator.

I'm far from an expert modeller, but this set is well worth the price to me. It's a simple way to dress this kit up and I think the end result will look convincing if not a contest-winner. There are very few resin bubbles, pits, or other imperfections. There is quite a bit of extremely thin flash around most of the parts, but clean-up takes very little effort. I cleaned most of it off the parts while they're still on the sprues before taking the photo. The attachment points between the parts and the sprues will need some care, but are well-defined.

I hope this description is usefull. I'll try posting images of the parts again when I have a better idea what I'm doing.
Pete

#22 rock1947a

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:03 AM

Page 2 of instructions.

Attached Images

  • PB180125.jpg


#23 LSP_Mike

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:07 AM

How much was it? Sounds good. thanks for posting what you have, so far.

in progress:

 1/32 Hase Me-109G2/R6
1/35 Su-85/ winter- attach to base
1/32 DH-9a USMC- Delivered to Flying Leathernecks Museum, MCAS Miramar
1/32 Mig-3:winter paint and weathering: in progress and base
Yacht America need some parts.

I'm so far behind, I think I'm in first place...
Yes, I built models when I was a kid too.... no they're not toys....


#24 rock1947a

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:53 AM

How much was it? Sounds good. thanks for posting what you have, so far.


Hiya Mike.
This set was $25.00 plus $5.25 minimum shipping.

Here's the URL for Lone Star if you need it. Their home page says that they're closed until Jan. 1st.
http://www.lonestarmodels.com/

Pete

#25 rock1947a

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 11:46 PM

Hi again everyone. I think I figured out how to resize my Lone Star F3F Cockpit so I'm trying to post them now. I hope this works, and that they will be useful to you.
Pete

Attached Images

  • PB180126.jpg


#26 rock1947a

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 11:57 PM

Instrument Panel

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  • PB210127.jpg


#27 rock1947a

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 11:59 PM

Rear Bulkhead and Seat

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  • PB210128.jpg


#28 rock1947a

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 12:06 AM

Cockpit Side Walls and gear plug.

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  • PB210129.jpg


#29 rock1947a

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 12:09 AM

Cockpt Floor, Rudder Peddals, and Control Column.

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  • PB210131.jpg


#30 rock1947a

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 12:11 AM

Radio Compartment Access Panel, Floor, and Left Side Wall

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  • PB210130.jpg





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