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Trumpy P_51B


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#31 Hacker

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:22 PM

http://modelingmadne...eviews/2274.htm

Good reveiw there
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#32 tourist

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:10 PM

Needless to say I thought it was a great review. :lol:
CHRISTIAN A.

#33 Guest_TimC_*

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 04:49 PM

Gents:

I've been doing some preliminary research on the P-51B/C using the following references as a guide:

1. Davis, Larry, P-51 Mustang in Color, Squadron/Signal Publications Inc., Carrollton, 1982
2. Davis, Larry, P-51 Mustang in Action, Squadron/Signal Publications Inc., Carrollton, 1981
3. Davis, Larry, Walk Around P-51D, Squadron/Signal Publications Inc., Carrollton, 1996
4. Kinzey, Bert, P-51 Mustang in Detail and Scale, Vol. 50, Part 1 Prototype through P-51C, Squadron/Signal Publications, Carrollton, 1996
5. Nohara, Shigeru, Masatsugu, Shiwaku, Aero Detail #13 North American P-51D Mustang, Dai Nippon Kaiga Publishing, Tokyo, 1995

The following are the observations I've made with respect to those statements made by others, who find problems in the Trumpeter P-51B. If an individual comment was founded in fact then I'll confirm it based on the sources I've used. If not, I will attempt to offer an alternative explanation, again based on the sources above (and a workaround/fix if I'm able). I have based this reply on sprue shots of the kit, the markings and instructions (mine isn't here yet) and what has been written elsewhere. I hope you find this useful and informative. It is NOT intended as an attack against anyone in any venue; it is my interpretation of the historical record and what I've noticed in the kit. When I get my kit in hand, I'll examine it in closer detail and edit these comments as necessary.

Early on in this thread, tourist made the following comments about the kit.

-Wrong curved cockpit floor (as well as ill equipped).
Yes, this is correct, the Trumpeter kit has an incorrect floor. The modeler will have to outsource or scratchbuild the correct floor if an accurate P-51B is to be made.

-The engine may indeed be too small (for those who care).
No comment here, I cannot determine one way or the other. If the modeler feels that the engine is too small, I would suggest gluing on the access panels and leaving it be. Alternatively, if you feel up to it, you can scratchbuild a new one but that is way beyond my capabilities. Engine's and Things makes (or made) a resin Merlin but the quality of the cast may not be up to what the modeler may require.

-They didn't get the wheel wells right, the front looks OK but the back part has the usual wrong shape.
Yes, this is correct, this kit suffers from the same affliction as do all the other Mustang kits. The only remedy at this point is to scratchbuild a new wheel well.

-The ammo bay doors are too big, they look like the ones on a P-51D.
This is not a true statement. The P-51B and D had the same size gun bays. The P-51B gun bay is large enough to have held another .50. Ref. #4 Page 40
-The wingtip lights are the wrong ones (good for a P-51D).
Yes, this is correct. The wingtip lights on a P-51B are small teardrop lights on the top and bottom of each wing at the tip. The P-51D wingtip lights are of the same or similiar design and are out at the ends of the wingtips. This is an easy fix. Sand off the offending lights and add new ones in the proper place. Ref. #4 Page 27, 52, Ref #1 Page 36 (for the D)
-The propeller cuffs have a wrong shape commonly seen on Mustang kits.
I believe this to be an incorrect statement. From what I've noticed on the propellor from exhaustively examining many photos of the P-51 prop, Trumpeter got it pretty close, if not spot on.
-The underwing pylons are also the wrong type (D type)
Yes, but a very minor problem. The only difference I can see between the B and D pylons is that the B has permanently fixed stability braces at the four corners of the pylon. the modeler can make them from plastic card and rod. Ref. #4 Page 53
-The instructions direct you to add small actuators on top of the flaps (were no moving surface exists)!??!!
I don't see any actuator, per se, in the instructions although I do see something being placed on top of the flaps that looks like a piece of PE. I don't know what this is....another easy fix, leave it off.
-The cockpit layout is all wrong, they invented a separation wall behind the seat and another further aft behind the fuel cell.
I don't have the sprues in hand yet to fully examine them. The separation walls are an easy fix...leave them off and fill the holes where they locate. Or, rebuild the entire cockpit aft of the armor plate. Very early P-51B/C aircraft were delivered without a fuselage fuel tank so it is feasible to rebuild it w/out the tank. NOTE: Most of them were later retrofitted with the fuselage fuel cell so check your references carefully.
-The fuselage fuel cell and above frame are wrongly shaped.
See above.
-More than half of the equipment that should be seen behind the seat is missing, at the same time "invisible" parts are provided.
Yes, 2/3 of it is missing. The battery and the dynamotor are missing but can easily be scratched as they're boxes. The frame for the radios may be a bit harder to make but still not beyond the capabilities of most modelers.
There are no underwing port holes for the spent shells/links.
Yes, this is correct but again, another easy fix. The P-51 B/C Mustang had only one huge squre hole on the underside of the wing through which the spent casings were ejected. There were two smaller, square holes through which the links were ejected. Easy fix. Ref. #4, Page 53 and 63.

Some other observations by others:

There are rocket tube mounts attached to the wings that shouldn't be there.
Correct, sand them off.

Tom Cleaver's review at Modeling Madness:

"More problematic is the fact that the main gear wheel doors are just “off” in shape, and that the outer doors are P-51D doors - which are noticeably wider in chord than the doors of the P-51B and the Allison Mustangs."
I can find no differences in the references cited above that any difference exists between the B and D outer gear doors. The inboard gear doors do appear to be misshapen but I cannot really tell without having the sprues in my hand.
"The kit has the formation lights in the outer right wing that is correct for a P-51D and wrong for a P-51B."
Yes, this is correct. I can find no photographic evidence of formation lights on P-51B/C aircraft. As a matter of fact, when looking at photo's of P-51D's, I saw a few that seemed to be missing them as well.
"The exhaust stacks are single pieces, and do not include the cover commonly used on the majority of Mustangs."
Yes, this is correct but many P-51B/C and D aircrat had them removed.
"The wings are not a laminar cross-section, which most people will not notice, but some will look at the final result and wonder why it is that the upper wing/fuselage joint looks “off” to them."
I"ll hold comment until I have sprues in hand. Even if it is true, there's not much a modeler can do about it short of contstucting a new wing and fuselage/wing joint.
"...with lots of parts that will end up staying in the box since they depict areas of the model that can’t be seen without cutting the model open."
No, Trumpeter provides you with clear fuselage halves should you decide to show off these "hidden" parts.
" The cockpit bears no relationship to any cockpit in any Mustang of any sub-type, ever. The instrument panel is a P-51D panel by shape, with an insert that tries to put the individual instruments in a “P-51B-like pattern. The seat and the armor backing are bastardizations of a P-51D seat and armor."
From what I'm seeing in the pictures and instructions, this is an incorrect statement. I can clearly see the P-51B/C style seat and armor plate. If the cockpit is not P-51B/C (other than the floor) then it's in the sidewall additions. I'll hold judgement until I get the sprues in hand.
"The “Malcolm Hood” the kit provides looks like the original only in side profile, since it is not “blown” in any way."
Again, I must hold comment until I see the sprues in hand.

Well, FWIW, those are my observations on what's been written. Some good, some bad. I still bought the kit in spite of the shortcomings. I'll edit my comments as soon as I receive it.

TimC. :D

#34 theseeker

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 05:10 PM

Thanks for the clarification Tim. I can't wait to see the aftermarket gear for this kit.

The best revenge is living well!

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#35 tourist

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 07:01 PM

Good observations, I'd like to add a few comments though.

-About the ammo bay door: I wasn't talking about the gun bay doors but, as stated, the elongated ammo bay doors which are too long.
it's a mistake seen on most P-51B kits and almost all scale drawings.

-The propeller cuff's angle at the root is too pronounced, it's the same mistake seen on Tamiya's Mustangs (although it looks more subdued here).

-The little PE part they want you to put on the flap is an actuator.

I stick with every comment I had previously made, no mistakes there.

About Tom Cleaver's comments:

-Tom is right, there was a difference between the B and D wheel bay doors, the wing was shaped differently and this affected the wheel bays.
I cannot see clearly enough on the sprue shots to tell which is which but I trust Tom's review.

-The seat provided in the kit is a Shick-Johnson, unlike what most people think this seat was only mounted on the first 400 P-51Bs.
The rest had the Warren Mac-Arthur seat (commonly associated with P-51D's).
Interestingly, a lot of P-51Ds actually had a Shick-Johnson installed.
Things are not as simple as they seem. :blink:
CHRISTIAN A.

#36 stevegallacci

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 01:59 AM

Having seen the kit sprues, my reaction is that what jumped out was the wing airfoil section, which is right out wrong. However, my earlier speculative correction still seems to be plausible. What would be needed is the gun bays closed and the bay box removed, along with the wing root butt plate. Then ever so carefully give the upper wing half a span-wise bend at about the 60% cord line (check refs to be sure). Rework the wing to fuselage fillet with some putty and there you are.
The props, lacking a direct comparision to good photos, looked okay. I had a vauge impression that the spinner might be a bit short(?) The Malcom hood doesn't even begin to have enough bulge.
I think the rivets are overdone, but that is just me.
I would have picked one up myself but I'm both a time and money budget right now and it will have to wait.
The mystery actuator on the flap appears to be a non-existant trim tab control, apperently Trumpeter thought the panel line (which should it be there?) was actually the outline of a trim tab!




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