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US navy grey - A7E?


red Dog

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Hello gents,

 

I need a bit of help regarding the all grey matt scheme of the USN A-7E

The earlier white grey scheme is pretty obvious.

 

Most of the all grey kits i have seen don't seem right to my eyes and most of them had decals contrast issues. Especially with the light grey decals which often are almost invisible on the documented grey.

The reason for that is that most of the instructions call for a paint reference FS36320 - in my case that translates to H307 in the gunze range.

Most usn grey scheme are reported in the gunze range as H308 and H307

Well these two colours are not quite contrasted when painted alongside. the difference is really subtle and most of the time disappear with weathering

The hornet is a perfect example of that.

 

Now i perfectly understand that weathering plays a huge role with USN models. Corrosion controls really can impact the looks of an aircrfat colour, but yet if your base colour is not right, it is even harder to get it right during weathering.

 

Getting back to the modern corsair. I'm building an A-7E from desert storm. It's going to be either a VA-46 clansmen or a VA-72 from USS JFK during Desert Storm.

I'm not at my first Desert storm  A-7E and the previous ones i built suffered from the same problem as I painted them according to the given references: FS36320= H307

 

that's what i did with the current build and comparing eye to eye with pictures of the real thing, the tone of the colour is just not right.

H307 (FS36320) has a blue hue which is not right imho, the real pictures seems to me more like a neutral grey, without that blue hue. Sometimes it looks even darker.

 

Here are two pictures to illustrate what i am trying to illustrate:

 

A6_AAR_A7_1.png

this is one of the real picture

 

A6A7_079_A7_basecolor.png

Here's the current model painted with documented paint reference (FS36320)

as you can see the match of colour isn't satisfactory

 

I had great hope with the new MRP range and tried their FS36320 but the result is about the same hue and create the very same problem.

So at this time, i'm not satisfied and need to make a repaint with a more neutral grey or something darker and at least without the blue tint to it.

 

So gents, what would be a more suitable color reference for USN colours in general and for the corsair scheme in particular?

thanks for your input

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I can understand your problem as the late USN tactical schemes varied a great deal due to light and fading. here's two photos of the same aircraft and notice how different the same paint looks in different light. I prefer the second pic.

 

A-7E.jpg

 

23444318880_4416227f8b_b.jpg

Edited by Maxim
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FS36320 should be correct; the only alternative would be FS36375 IMO. Are you absolutely sure the aircraft only wore one camo colour? According to MIL STD 2161, the standard TPS scheme worn by A-7s was FS36320 over FS36320. Note that the pic you are using for reference has a yellowish hue!

 

For reference, check out MIL STD 2161: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MIL-STD-2161A_(AS).pdf

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Maxim,

that makes perfect sense and i was kind of expecting this to be the case. Your picture is proof enough it's the case, thanks. I'll just need to adapt my painting to get an effect closer to the second picture.

My paint matches well the first image you posted, the effect i'm after is on your second image :)

 

Starfighter,

I can't deny I found conflicting sources. Most seems to say that the flat ghost grey scheme is one grey only. Cam pro says so. Victory says so, Airdoc says so as well.

All the book references i've checked have illustrations with a single colours. I don't trust illustartions, but still...

All of them conflicts with the TPS scheme official source you posted.

 

VA-72 definitely has the two tone grey:

70bcaba97f35e4a000adcbe2d8fd0b50--corsai

 

I could not find the same evidence for the clansmen.

do you see it in these pictures?

image029.jpg

image033.jpg

image067.jpg

I can't. And none of these picture reflects the colour of my model posted above.

It may be the colour conditions over the desert, i agree. But then my model is represented flying over the same desert too :)

That said, the problem is that the lighter grey is under the wings and most of the time in the shadow. the contrasts between the two colours is very subtle and weathering makes it disappear even more. So it's a mistake easily done, IF it's a mistake.

But does it matter in the end?

If it's barely visible on the real aircraft and sometime even invisible to the naked eye, then it should be so as well on the model.

Hence the problem here is not using one or two grey tone that is the issue, rather the colour difference of the main grey due to light conditions.

 

I'm not saying FS36320 is wrong - and maxim's picture above proves it's right. They all use it and TPS tech doc says so as well. But if the colour is prone to change hue with white balance, then basically we have a lot of flexibility in choosing our colours.

I'm concerned with an academic paint value that doesn't reflect what i see in real life photographic evidences of the same aircraft. I think it's important that I trust my eyes and not only a reference, although correct.

After all that H307 paint does a poor job of changing colour per light condition as the real paint it seems :)

Edited by red Dog
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Great imagery.  Where is that Hanger Queen?

 

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Mark

 

The two photos are of the A-7E that is at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola.

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thank you guys

 

Less adherence to strict matching standards will yield you a much more realistic looking model, I guarantee you.

I guess that's exactly my point in this topic and i was wondering if any of you guys already went that route and which paint was suitable for the effect.

I have a few ideas i need to try this coming weekend

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