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Aires 1:32 F-8 exhaust differences?


jenshb

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Picked up a Trumpeter 1:32 F-8E Crusader from the Essex Modellers' Show with the intention of turning it into an RF-8.  I have checked for other aftermarket to add to the model, and I see that Aires do two resin exhaust ducts for this kit; 2094 and 2127.  I can't see the difference between them in the photos.  Which would be right for an RF-8G, or does it matter which one to get?

 

Jens

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I can see a few differences. The flame holder is different (4 branches vs 5 branches), and the turkey feathers look totally different.

If i remember correctly there was different engines through the F-8 life, and so it was for the F-100. (IIRC they shared one or more engines).

AIRE2094.jpg

AIRE2127.JPG

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Ah, so it is two different subtypes of the J57.  I didn't spot that.  Strange that Aires actually bothered with the differences without highlighting them.  If they had made one suitable for the F-8E and the other for the F-8J then that would have made it less confusing.  Thank you for clarifying gentlemen.

 

Jens

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Strange that Aires actually bothered with the differences without highlighting them.  If they had made one suitable for the F-8E and the other for the F-8J then that would have made it less confusing.

I made the mistake of buying 2127, it is labeled on the box as F-8N.

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F-8 Aires talk was earlier this month and according to this, the 2127 F-8N set would be for post 1979 French aircraft:

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=69540&p=941601

 

If this RF-8G walkaround is correct on PrimePortal, to me the petal shape doesn't really match either of the Aires sets but the holder has four "legs":

026-RF-8G-145645.jpg

Edited by ziggyfoos
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F-8 Aires talk was earlier this month and according to this, the 2127 F-8N set would be for post 1979 French aircraft:

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=69540&p=941601

 

If this RF-8G walkaround is correct on PrimePortal, to me the petal shape doesn't really match either of the Aires sets but the holder has four "legs":

 

Looks like it matches the bottom Aires set in the photos above to me. 4-spoke flame holder and ribbed instead of perforated nozzle petals.

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Looks like it matches the bottom Aires set in the photos above to me. 4-spoke flame holder and ribbed instead of perforated nozzle petals.

Ya you're right. When I first looked I thought I saw a three cell pattern on the Aires set not two, but looking at it again my eyes are uncrossed and I see it really is two too.

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Jens,

 

First some clarification on F-8 engines: from a modeling standpoint there are two types - we'll call them early and late - distinguishable by their afterburner sections.  The early engines, the P4, P12, P16 and P22 engines all had an afterburner tube that was like a corrugated pipe. Their flame holder was a five spoke design and the AB petals had a pattern that I call the "waffle iron" pattern. 

 

P4-12-22-16_AB_1_zpsug6giotw.jpg

 

P4-12-22-16_Flamehoder_zpsbnuuwura.jpg

 

P4-P22_PetalDetail_sm_zpsbbx7qu2l.jpg

 

This engine configuration applies to the F8U-1/F-8A, F8U-1E/F-8B/F-8L, F8U-1P/RF-8A/RF-8G*, and F8U-2/F-8C/F-8K

 

The late engines are characterized by an AB petal that I refer to as the "wave pattern", a four spoke flameholder, and an AB tube comprised of overlapping rings.

 

P20-20A-420_AB_zpsgiqlblky.jpg

 

P20-20A-420_Flameholder_zpsfyjrers7.jpg

 

P20-P20A-P420_PetalDetail_zpscubferem.jp

 

This engine configuration applies to the F8U-2N/F-8D/F-8H, F8U-2NE/F-8E/F-8J, F-8E(FN)/F-8P ......AND the RF-8G after 1978.

 

A note about the P420.  It came about because the F-8J, which weighed 1500 pounds more than the E, was seriously underpowered, particularly in the landing pattern where bleed air from the compressor was diverted for the BLC, thus reducing thrust.  On a hot day, the APC (Approach Power Compensator - autothrottle) could not cope with the power demands because it could not give 100% power.  A number of interim solutions were tried, including reducing the wing incidence to 5 degrees, but in the long run the solution was more power.  Pratt and Whitney responded with the P420 which had considerably more power, just under a thousand pounds in basic and 1500 in burner.  These were not new build engines, the existing P20A's were overhauled to P420 standard and supplied initially to the fleet J's, but eventually to the H's still serving in the Reserves, giving the H a near 1:1 thrust to weight ratio at low fuel weights.  It was a hotrod!.  In 1977, the last F-8 fighters were retired, leaving just the RF-8G.  The P420 engines were removed from the H's and J's, along with their improved A-7 style MLG struts and fitted to the remaining RF-8G's.  I refer to these airplanes as RF-8G+'s, but that is my terminology and not official, but useful for differentiating between the two.  The G+ is easily identified by the fact that it has the AB cooling scoops on the tailpipe, and a single outlet for the ACM exhaust on the right forward fuselage.  The early engines had a longer bifurcated ACM exhaust and on the G+, the forward section was simply blanked off.

 

ACM_Exhaust_RF-8GvsG_zpsq79gl4wl.jpg

 

 

So those are the differences.  You will note that neither set is a particularly good replica of the petals, but the early engine one (2094, I think) is better than the late one.  Which one you use depends on the timeframe you want your model to depict: before or after 1978. 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Tom Weinel

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Thank you very much for chipping in Tom.  The aircraft I have set my mind on is option 3 on the Zotz sheet, so 1967 and the early version it is then.

 

Remember your comment "H for Hotrod, J for Junk":)

 

Jens

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Great post and very helpful as I have been wondering the same with the two Aires sets. An F-8 is on my list also.

Yes indeed, thanks Tom. That was an epic first post! Good to see you on this forum. Plenty of interest in Crusaders over here, especially now with the release of the Fisher photo bird conversion.

 

The Master Details "F-102 stlyle" Afterburner Set, designed for the 1/32 Trumpeter F-100D https://masterdetails.com/web-store/pilots-figures-details/kit-number/f-100-super-sabre-f-102-style-afterburner-can-detail might be adaptable to the Crusader. From the pictures, it seems to represent the early "waffle iron" petal design, although I can't comment any further on its accuracy or how it compares to the Aires offerings.

 

Rich

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