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The late Edgar Brooks' foil glue formula


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#1 ScottsGT

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:13 PM

I'm wanting to tackle a NMF on one of my kits and I've been doing some reading about glues.  I've tried the Microscale on some test pieces, and like others I cannot get rid of brush marks. Some guys can pull it off with no problems.  I can't.  I've experimented with Mona Lisa gold leaf sizing. No help.

I ran across Edgar's posts about how his formula sprays smooth from an airbrush and works very well.  He even offered to share is formula with our very own LSP Kevin.

Did anyone ever get this formula?


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#2 Out2gtcha

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 05:01 PM

MS foil glue sprays fine from an AB. Ive tried SO many substitutes for MS foil glue including Leaf sizing, Elmers white, spray on tack, formula 56, and a whole slew of others and if I'm honest nothing worked like MS foil glue.
I tend to not mess with something that works really well.

Just take the MS glue and thin it with bottled water (or anything but tap) down to the normal cosistancey of thinned paint, and it will spray nicely. Do not pay attention to any beading, it will naturally work out in most cases I've found.
Shoot several cup fulls of 90% alcohol after.
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#3 Out2gtcha

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 05:03 PM

Also make sure to disassemble the AB any and every time after shooting the MS glue through the AB and clean with the same 90% alcohol
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#4 Mark_C

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

Good to know, Brian.  I'd wondered about those two items.


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#5 Radub

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:11 PM

I wonder what is the long-term life of these foil adhesives. I recently saw a friend's model that was "foiled" in the nineties and the foil was lifting at the joints.
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#6 Out2gtcha

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:41 PM

I wonder what is the long-term life of these foil adhesives. I recently saw a friend's model that was "foiled" in the nineties and the foil was lifting at the joints.
Radu

 

 

IVe got a couple customers that have some of my foiled models that are +10 and one that is +15 years old.  Ive got models personally I did when I started foiling around 2005 or 2006. None are perfect, but none really have any foil sections lifting. This however doesnt mean that if you fail to cover evenly or enough, that the edges of the foil wont come up. They will. 

 

Normally its very resilient.   The main issue with foiling and the foil lifting, is not so much the adhesive, but more due to temp changes. If the model is moved a lot, or is taken to shows (inside to outside, or outside to inside) the foil can really bubble bad and edges can come up. Humidity and temp changes seem to really wreak havoc on foil models.  Even internal house temp changes can cause this.

Obviously no adhesive will be flawless or last forever, but the MS foil glue seems to have at least as long, if not a longer life on a model, then CA.



#7 Gazzas

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:22 PM

MS foil glue sprays fine from an AB. Ive tried SO many substitutes for MS foil glue including Leaf sizing, Elmers white, spray on tack, formula 56, and a whole slew of others and if I'm honest nothing worked like MS foil glue.
I tend to not mess with something that works really well.

Just take the MS glue and thin it with bottled water (or anything but tap) down to the normal cosistancey of thinned paint, and it will spray nicely. Do not pay attention to any beading, it will naturally work out in most cases I've found.
Shoot several cup fulls of 90% alcohol after.

 

You are a braver man than me.  My dedicated  'MS foiling' paintbrush looks like a seal's flipper no matter how many times I have tried to clean it with alcohol.  I don't think I'll try spraying it until I get another airbrush to replace 'old faithful'.


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#8 Gazzas

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:36 PM

I'm wanting to tackle a NMF on one of my kits and I've been doing some reading about glues.  I've tried the Microscale on some test pieces, and like others I cannot get rid of brush marks. Some guys can pull it off with no problems.  I can't.  I've experimented with Mona Lisa gold leaf sizing. No help.

I ran across Edgar's posts about how his formula sprays smooth from an airbrush and works very well.  He even offered to share is formula with our very own LSP Kevin.

Did anyone ever get this formula?

 

Just a few things about streaking that maybe you haven't tried:

 

Use a soft, flat brush that is about 1/2" wide.  Just wide enough to fit into the top of the bottle without hitting the sides.

 

Paint the glue on to pieces of foil that are about 4"X8" so that you can easily go from end to end or side to side without stopping.

 

Thin the glue with a little water if you feel it's going on too thick or leaving brush marks.

 

If the glue appears to bead, keep brushing until the beading stops.

 

Try not to over-brush.  If you are still brushing while the paint is getting tacky, you will leave brush marks.

 

Maybe these are helpful in some way.

 

Gaz


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#9 LSP_Kevin

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:00 PM

He even offered to share is formula with our very own LSP Kevin.

 

He did? I have no recollection of that offer being made. But then, I can't remember where I put my car keys, either.

 

Kev


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#10 BiggTim

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:21 AM

You are a braver man than me. My dedicated 'MS foiling' paintbrush looks like a seal's flipper no matter how many times I have tried to clean it with alcohol. I don't think I'll try spraying it until I get another airbrush to replace 'old faithful'.

Note that Brian said 90% isopropyl alcohol. The standard stuff you buy at the store is only 70%. You sometimes have to go to a druggist to get the 90. The 70 stuff will NOT break the glue down well enough.

Incidentally, it also does a great job of cleaning adhesive off of clear parts from tape or masking film. However, it WILL dissolve most acrylic and enamel paint at that strength with prolonged exposure.

Edited by BiggTim, 16 December 2017 - 12:24 AM.

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#11 Gazzas

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:52 AM

Note that Brian said 90% isopropyl alcohol. The standard stuff you buy at the store is only 70%. You sometimes have to go to a druggist to get the 90. The 70 stuff will NOT break the glue down well enough.

Incidentally, it also does a great job of cleaning adhesive off of clear parts from tape or masking film. However, it WILL dissolve most acrylic and enamel paint at that strength with prolonged exposure.

I see.  Thank you for the info.  I'll have to see if it's available here in the "nanny state".

 

Gaz


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#12 LSP_Kevin

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:26 AM

Incidentally, it also does a great job of cleaning adhesive off of clear parts from tape or masking film. However, it WILL dissolve most acrylic and enamel paint at that strength with prolonged exposure.

 

I actually prefer to use WD40 for that task, though the main adhesive residue I clean off clear parts is from Bare Metal Foil. It's harmless on acrylics and lacquers, but does affect enamels somewhat.

 

Kev


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#13 LSP_Kevin

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:28 AM

I see.  Thank you for the info.  I'll have to see if it's available here in the "nanny state".

 

Gaz

 

I've seen it in pharmacies, Gaz, but never bought it, as it seems too expensive to flush out an airbrush. I usually use lacquer thinner for that task, though there are some paints that seem to gum up when they come into contact with it.

 

Kev



#14 mmaben

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:16 AM

I've never seen 90% alcohol, only 91%. I've seen it in pharmacies

and grocery stores. I think I got mine at Walmart. I also have a

small bottle (plastic) of 99% also bot at the grocery store just to

see if there's any difference. Alcohol is very inexpensive.

Tim's right, it is not interchangeable with 70% rubbing alcohol.

 

If when thinning with water beading occurs I'd recommend adding

a tiny drop of dishsoap as it is a great surface tension killer.


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#15 LSP_Kevin

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:20 AM

Alcohol is very inexpensive.

 

Unfortunately it is, here in Australia. And I've never seen it available outside pharmacies. What we generally use in its place is methylated spirits (metho, in strine), and this is cheap and available everywhere.

 

Kev


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