HKM B-25

[SimonCornes]

I don't think anyone minds 'improving' a kit otherwise there would be nothing for the aftermarket to do if everything was perfect but I think the matter is the cost of the basic kit - it shouldn't be too high if it is only basic. Of course all manufacturers think their product is the best and its up to us to find the truth but I bet there are some prospective builders who are put off by high prices for - in our terms - basic kits. The B-25 will soon retail at £200. We can expect to spend at least another £100 bringing it up to scratch. If it retailed at £150 then there would be far more buyers and far better turnover for HKM. I understand that the Meteor didn't sell that well on the basis that it was overpriced and I believe the retail price had been reduced. Those 1/35th ammo belts sound interesting. Can they be bought in the UK? I haven't heard of the manufacturer before.

[red Dog]

I faced the same dilemna when I planned my Maid in the shade build.

I considered both Eduard and Profimodeller and in the end I went with a mix of the two depending on what would be visible in the final build.

 

In many cases, Eduard and Profimodeler are redundant, but in some cases, they complement each other.

To use both is possible but IMHO overkill.

 

Be aware that Eduards have some real nasty mistakes on their instruction sheet, they have the fuselage doors all mixed-up

I'd say in the end I used about 90% eduard and 10% profimodeller with careful planning to avoid overbuying redundant AM stuff - which is almost impossible

Regarding brass guns, I discarded fully PE. I can't cope with them and I went Masters. I'm glad I did

 

Of course that means the modeller has to spend extra time in planning

Buy hey guys, isn't that part of the modelling hobby.?

 

We spend ages criticizing nex projects from the manufacturers, we spend hours voicing our so called frustration because kits are not perfect and not up to tamiya standards.

Isn't the research, the planning, the search for the best method according to what we want to reach for a finished model, part of the concept ob building models to LSP standards?

Otherwise we wouldn't even be here on the forum would we?

 

Sure enough the HKM B-25 has some minor issues but comon, it's a great kit. Minimum mastic required. Just a bit of careful planning for obvious issues (like the waist gun pivot point position indeed) but the kit is very simple to build and very well engineered IMHO.

It's no shake and bake but hell I'm glad it isn't, because I personally feel that tamiya builds are just boring.

They are boring in their 'popular choice which almost all builders do in the same configuration and we end up with seeing always the same models. And they are boring because of the way they build.

Anyway, that's a personnal opinion. I am sure not spoiled by them. 

 

My personal point of view is that I have more respect for companies who have the guts to try less popular products but do mistakes rather than companies who never do mistakes but design only kits that will sell to the general public.

I understand the mechanics, but I know where my gratitude (and my money) goes

Edited May 14, 2017 by red Dog

[SimonCornes]

Thank you for the response Mr Dog. I've just tried the link but nothing happens - I get a blank screen! I am quite intrigued as to which Eduard and Profimodeller sets you used? Or is it a case that you bought them all and then were selective about which components from each set you used? I agree though, this is modelling and once upon a time, before the days of resin and photo etch we used card and wire to improve what we would now think of being very basic kits but that is how you cut your modelling teeth. Was very useful when I renovated my house - no, I didn't use p/e and resin but I did use a lot of basic skills picked up from modelling of one sort or another!

 

I have just got hold of a copy of the Crowood book to see if that gives me some inspiration about markings.

[red Dog]

Weird Simon, links works for me.

Anyway, the full WIp is on this board as well

[SimonCornes]

Thank you for that - would you believe it, your link has now worked - must just have been taking time to load. I think that may be very useful to read so Have copied the link to my favourites and will have a look later. I rather think it will answer my questions!! 

Thanks again

[red Dog]

I remember having long hesitation about the choice of PE for the bombbay. and the radio compartment.

 

Eduards deals only with the internals of the Bombbay.

Profimod deals with the internal sides and the outside of the bomb bay, read inside the fuselage. Which is great. 
Bonus point for profimod on that one.

 

As I was getting the larger set for the fuselage interior from Eduard,

I discarded the small PE form Profimodeller for the radio compartment (well that was an easy decision for me as the support turret was removed in my maid in the shade build. And most PE goes there)

 

What I really liked in the smaller Profimod kits were the gun wire support lines system. It's a very attractive detail in the waist gun position and the nose comprtment. I wanted to have them in my build.

Problem is apart these tiny details, I had already most of the PE from the eduard interior kit (which obviously doen't have the gun support lines)
In the end I decided not to buy the profimodeller kit and stick with eduard's and I scratched the gun support lines.

 

 

The same was done for the rear compartment, the only real part I was interested from the profimod kit was the rear bulkhead. All the rest was to me rudundant. Eduard doesn't provide the rear bulkhead. So I scratched it.

 

Eduards has also the benefit of the Big Ed set, which kind of lock down all your options.

The bigEd can sometimes be bought at very good price when the novelty is over. You get a good deal on price but lots of redondant PE

I often compare my real needs from the individual sheets and the price advantage of the big Ed and most of the time the big Ed wins.

Having so many PE, then you are tempted to discard the other PE options.

I think I can say that's what happened with the B-25 build. and hence why I ended up with so few Profimod and so many eduard's PE

 

By the way I do have MANY left over PE for the B-25

I didn't use most of the exterior kit (engine mostly) and many various PE I didn't use

Edited May 14, 2017 by red Dog

[Phartycr0c]

Some great advice going on here, it really is great to see.

 

I had a conversations with Neil Yan two years ago about his kits. He openly admits that whilst thought goes into how the kits assemble, (the one piece wing of the Mosquito springs to mind) he never intended HK kits to be up there with the likes of Tamiya for detail.

 

The ethos behind this is that he prefers to leave the individual modeller the choice as to whether to build a kit straight from the box, or go all out in the addition of aftermarket, or settle somewhere in between.

 

Any of the options produced a perfectly acceptable rendition of Neils subject matter. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by Phartycr0c

[SimonCornes]

Thats a very interesting set of comments from you Pharty. First of all, we have to be grateful for Neil for giving us these airframes, period. The question of retail price is a thorny one - who sets it? If there's no equivalent, like the B-25, B-17, Lancaster and Meteor then its whatever the manufacturer wants but when you have 2 Mosquitos you are then comparing pears with pears and so RRP comes into the frame. I have both the Tamiya and HKM kits and, no two ways about it, the Tamiya kit is beautifully designed and executed and the HKM kit is in second place, but HKM is the only game in town for a 2 speed Merlin Mossie or  a bomber - but surely Tamiya will produce a bomber before to long?

Right now Hannants have the HKM kit at £170 and Tamiya at £200 - grief that is shocking, not looked at that recently!!! I would say a 15% price differential is probably fair on a quality/contents basis and I must admit that I had thought the prices were closer.

 

I very much appreciate the opinion Mr Dog, when there are several options it becomes a minefield. Your requirements were a little unusual though n that you were modelling a restored/modified example sop certain aspects were going to be redundant but its interesting to see what you have to say about the bits that you did use. I really do intend to give your work in progress thread a good read so that I can learn from your experiences.

[AdamR]

...Sure enough the HKM B-25 has some minor issues but comon, it's a great kit. Minimum mastic required. Just a bit of careful planning for obvious issues (like the waist gun pivot point position indeed) but the kit is very simple to build and very well engineered IMHO.

 

You are quite right, of course, rD. If I gave the impression I don't like the kit, I expressed myself poorly. I like it very much. It's just that the overall quality is so high, I find dumb goofs like the waist guns disappointing.

 

 

It's no shake and bake but hell I'm glad it isn't, because I personally feel that tamiya builds are just boring.

They are boring in their 'popular choice which almost all builders do in the same configuration and we end up with seeing always the same models. And they are boring because of the way they build.

Anyway, that's a personnal opinion. I am sure not spoiled by them.

Here I cannot agree with you. The superb engineering one finds as a Tamiya kit goes together is fascinating to me. It is obviously the product of talented artists, designers and engineers who are well managed so that they work together to produce wonderful results. Tamiya is a unique company that we are extremely fortunate to have serving our hobby. I believe the same thing is probably true of WnW*, though I haven't built one of their kits yet. (My D.VII is on the way: I'm so excited!). "Boring" is the last thing that comes to mind when I think of Tamiya kits.

 

* Can't have more than one "unique," Adam, lol!

Edited May 15, 2017 by AdamR

[SimonCornes]

You are right about the quality of Tamiya. Over many years they have consistently been the yardstick against which everything else is measured and most fall short. I have never built a ZM kit so I don't know how they compare but they must be the closest. I suppose Tamiya give all of us a very high quality platform upon which to learn the skills of paintwork but they also give us the inspiration to tackle more basic kits and to either use pure scratch building or aftermarket components to end up with a similar result. Without the highest standard we have nothing to aim for so thats where the challenge lies for us all. We should be - and I think we are - very grateful for a little Japanese engineering company which a lifetime ago gave us something special. No, never boring!

[Rowen]

Personally, I thought the HK B-25J glass nose kit was awesome! One of the better models I've built in recent years. While it took me nearly 19 months to finish, I totally enjoyed building the kit. I don't fuss over rivet counts so maybe that's why?

 

Some of you have seen the build I did but here it is again if not: http://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=1876

 

I have the HKM strafer version and both the HKM B-17G and B-17E/F kits. They are awaiting the finishing of a old pirate sailing ship. Looking forward to all three builds!

 

-Ro

[LSP_Ron]

Personally, I thought the HK B-25J glass nose kit was awesome! One of the better models I've built in recent years. While it took me nearly 19 months to finish, I totally enjoyed building the kit. I don't fuss over rivet counts so maybe that's why?

 

Some of you have seen the build I did but here it is again if not: http://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=1876

 

I have the HKM strafer version and both the HKM B-17G and B-17E/F kits. They are awaiting the finishing of a old pirate sailing ship. Looking forward to all three builds!

 

-Ro

 

Same experiance Ro 

 

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=43621&page=6&hl=%2Bb-25+%2Blsp_ron&do=findComment&comment=603386

[Phartycr0c]

At this point im chucking this in here 

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=55850&hl=eatin

 

 

 

 

 

 

You get the Idea

[SimonCornes]

Wow, you certainly got your money's worth out of that one!! Great diorama.

[SimonCornes]

Great advice red Dog about searching on eBay for the Eduard stuff. As soon as I read your suggestion I had a look and, blow me, someone had the Big Ed B-25J bomber set for sale starting at around £37 and finishing today. My attitude to these things is to bid the full RRP if you really want it and then if you get it for less you are winning. I suppose that, because the bomber kit is not generally/easily available, then the number of people chasing the specific aftermarket is reduced and I was the only bidder this morning. Eventually someone had a go sometime today but I ended up getting the set for £67 and I'm well pleased with that so thanks for the suggestion, it wasn't in my mind before you put it there!! Its certainly going some way to making the overall cost more reasonable.