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Fledgling Swallow - 1/32 FROG/Hasegawa Me 262V-3 prototype


Derek B

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Use of main 109 struts is highly improbable. Is it based on fact or just an assumption?

Books. Most notably "The Me 262 Stormbird from the pilots who flew, flought, and survived it" by Colin D. Heaton and Anne-Marie Lewis.

 

D

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Great information (and videos) guys - thank you all :speak_cool:. Looks like the V3 pulling very strongly here. Interesting debate on the undercarriage - given the much greater AUW of the 262, I would have expected that the 109E legs would be weak without some beefing up and larger wheels/tyres being fitted?

 

I agree with Matt that the V3 seems to be the best documented aircraft (and I like the colour scheme as well), so I feel that I should concentrate on this one. Not being an Luftwaffe Experten in any sense of the phrase, what colours do you think were used on this aircraft? I think that once I can be certain of the wing leading edge sweep anglesa and span, and the accurate positioning/location of the undercarriage bays (and leg details) - which constitute the main areas of rework - I will be in a position to start.

 

Would I be correct in thinking that the cockpit for the V3 would be close to the production 262's apart from the lack of guns? (would it also be correct to paint the cockpit interior RLM 66 dark grey?).

 

 

Best regards and thanks

 

Derek

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Derek

 

I have the Classic volumes and the Luftwaffe u/c book, I'll see what I can find out tomorrow. I like the V3's camo and its well documented (as we've seen). The V1 is an important and interesting machine, but maybe not for this GB (though in its final guise must have closely resembled the V3..?

 

PS last night I also found a 45 minute training film on how to fly the 262. Some very interesting stuff on getting the turbines up to speed without flaming out - tortuously slow! I'll find the link and post it..

 

Matt

 

Thanks Matt - your info is very valuable.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

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Books. Most notably "The Me 262 Stormbird from the pilots who flew, flought, and survived it" by Colin D. Heaton and Anne-Marie Lewis.

 

D

 

Thanks D., I'll keep an eye out for that book.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

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the legs are visible on 12:08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNrY7X5_vg

 

Just watched this video fully - it is really good. I see that the wheels and legs of the V3 are significanly different to the V5 Me 262, which had the production nosewheel and mainleg arrangement (those of the V3 being much thinner and simplified in comparison).

 

Derek

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Interesting debate on the undercarriage - given the much greater AUW of the 262, I would have expected that the 109E legs would be weak without some beefing up and larger wheels/tyres being fitted?

One would certainly think so. No modifications are mentioned that I could find, only the use of the readily-available gear legs. That's not to say there were no modifications, only that no modifications are noted.

 

Would I be correct in thinking that the cockpit for the V3 would be close to the production 262's apart from the lack of guns?

Nothing I've found describes in detail the differences, however the evolution of the engine and stick controls (as a bare minimum) from the prototypes to well into production is fairly well documented.

 

(would it also be correct to paint the cockpit interior RLM 66 dark grey?).

Yes, as Luftwaffe cockpits were ordered to be RLM 66 from November of '41.

 

Also of note is the overall camo of RLM 74/75/76 became official as of November '41 as well, even though those colors were in widespread use prior to that date.

 

HTH,

D

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One would certainly think so. No modifications are mentioned that I could find, only the use of the readily-available gear legs. That's not to say there were no modifications, only that no modifications are noted.

 

 

Nothing I've found describes in detail the differences, however the evolution of the engine and stick controls (as a bare minimum) from the prototypes to well into production is fairly well documented.

 

 

Yes, as Luftwaffe cockpits were ordered to be RLM 66 from November of '41.

 

Also of note is the overall camo of RLM 74/75/76 became official as of November '41 as well, even though those colors were in widespread use prior to that date.

 

HTH,

D

 

Thanks again D. :speak_cool: (thanks for the colour refs also).

 

Looks like I need to be sure of what the cockpit layout for the V3 looked like as best as I can compared to the production aircraft (I have not found any definitive pictures yet, but I would expect the first few aircraft to look pretty much the same?).

 

The u/c legs of the V3 in the video do look very basic and quite spindly in comparison to the production 262, but whether or not they look the same as the 109E remains to be seen? (I haven't checked this out yet).

 

Thanks to LSP Mike, I now have the BigEd1/32 PE interior and exterior detail sets for the Revell Me 262, so although I cannot use these for this build, I can use them as a template for detail parts for this build - although I may have to retro-engineer some of it back to prototype configuration (once I know what that is of course?).

 

Question for the GB mods here: I will obviously have to scratch build new gear bays and undercarriage for this particular build (as well as modify/correct the wing leading shape for the V3). Unless I can be allowed utilise suitable wheels and tyres from an alternative source (probably an Me 109G kit - unless there is something better in a different kit?), I will have to scratch build these items as well - what is your judgement on this aspect? (I am happy either way - I just need some clarification).

 

Cheers

 

Derek

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Thanks again D. :speak_cool: (thanks for the colour refs also).

 

Looks like I need to be sure of what the cockpit layout for the V3 looked like as best as I can compared to the production aircraft (I have not found any definitive pictures yet, but I would expect the first few aircraft to look pretty much the same?).

 

The u/c legs of the V3 in the video do look very basic and quite spindly in comparison to the production 262, but whether or not they look the same as the 109E remains to be seen? (I haven't checked this out yet).

 

Thanks to LSP Mike, I now have the BigEd1/32 PE interior and exterior detail sets for the Revell Me 262, so although I cannot use these for this build, I can use them as a template for detail parts for this build - although I may have to retro-engineer some of it back to prototype configuration (once I know what that is of course?).

 

Question for the GB mods here: I will obviously have to scratch build new gear bays and undercarriage for this particular build (as well as modify/correct the wing leading shape for the V3). Unless I can be allowed utilise suitable wheels and tyres from an alternative source (probably an Me 109G kit - unless there is something better in a different kit?), I will have to scratch build these items as well - what is your judgement on this aspect? (I am happy either way - I just need some clarification).

 

Cheers

 

Derek

 

Stealing from other kits is fine Derek. Maybe I can borrow your photo-etched parts when you're done not using them!

 

Kev

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Question for the GB mods here: I will obviously have to scratch build new gear bays and undercarriage for this particular build (as well as modify/correct the wing leading shape for the V3). Unless I can be allowed utilise suitable wheels and tyres from an alternative source (probably an Me 109G kit - unless there is something better in a different kit?), I will have to scratch build these items as well - what is your judgement on this aspect? (I am happy either way - I just need some clarification).

 

Stealing from other kits is fine Derek. Maybe I can borrow your photo-etched parts when you're done not using them!

 

Kev

 

Thanks Kev, that will make life a little easier for me (they will more than likely be a mix of alternative kit parts and scratch built). :) :speak_cool:

 

Although I will not be using the PE parts for this specific build, I plan use them on another Me 262 build in the future (and there will be another one, as I like the 262's nearly as much as the 163 Komets!).

 

Thanks

 

Derek

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Another colour check time please? I have looked at various LSP builds of the 262, plus some on-line museum restored 262's and the inside of the fuselage, as seen through the main wheel well bays, appears to be aluminium in the main with some RLM 02 areas - but these are not consistant). I have seen variations of RLM 02 in the wing parts of the bays as well as aluminium - is there any guidance for the V3 as to the likely internal colours in these areas please?

 

Likewise, I think that the nose wheel gear bay would be RLM 02? The legs themselves I have no idea, but they look lighter than RLM 66, so would I be right to go for RLM 02 here as well, or would they have been aluminium? Wheel hubs black?

 

Enquiring minds need to know!

 

Many thanks

 

Derek

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All RLM 02 in the wheel wells (and the rest of the interior, minus the inside of the cockpit) would be a good choice for the period that the V3 was built. Only very late in the war were these areas commonly left unpainted (natural aluminum).

 

D

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All RLM 02 in the wheel wells (and the rest of the interior, minus the inside of the cockpit) would be a good choice for the period that the V3 was built. Only very late in the war were these areas commonly left unpainted (natural aluminum).

 

D

 

:speak_cool: Thank you D.

 

This is what I also had in mind, but I didn't want to say anything until I had asked the question first.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

Edited by Derek B
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  • 3 months later...
Use of main 109 struts is highly improbable. Is it based on fact or just an assumption?

More information for the Doubting Thomases:

PB050001.jpg

 

I just came across this* again and remembered to post a quick image of the whole page for your consideration.

 

Any progress on this project, Derek?

 

D

 

* Page 109 from "Me 262 Vol.1" by Smith & Creek.

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More information for the Doubting Thomases:

PB050001.jpg

 

I just came across this* again and remembered to post a quick image of the whole page for your consideration.

 

Any progress on this project, Derek?

 

D

 

* Page 109 from "Me 262 Vol.1" by Smith & Creek.

 

Thank you very much for that information D. - that is excellent! (it does seem to corrolate with the film footage, where the legs look almost like plain tubes - you'd think that they were Hurricane legs!).

 

Work temporarily on hold due to extreme work committments and having to get some more master patterns out of the door, but it is not far away and is just waiting for me to pick it up again at some point (your wheel and leg info' is invaluable to me here).

 

Many thanks

 

Derek

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