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I know I am late to the party with WNW but why no Spad Xlll


dashotgun

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You guys are way to young to remember how model kits were selected to be produced by model companies before WW2.

Now sit down children and the old man will tell you how it was when the noble red man ruled the plains of America. 

Many moon ago model airplane kits were very simple, either a box of a few lumps of balsa wood and some instructions, or a sheet of the contours in sections, a small dowel for landing gear and a packet of dry casein powder to be mixed into a glue. Other kits were the stick and tissue type where the formers were printed onto the balsa sheets to be cut oiut.

The kits cost about 10 cents, one thin dime.  In both cases the modeler did all the work in making the model. Who selected which kits to be made was the owner of the company, which was usually started in a garage. When or if the company gained many sales they would rent a bigger garage and finally a small wood working shop.

There was a list of WW1 and 1920-30's aircraft to be produced and they all were. 

No expensive dies, injection molding machinery, etc  

An owner wanted to introduce a new kit, no problem, print different plans on paper. Pesto, a new kit emerged. Minimal investment.

Some of the early wood kit producers went over to plastic after WW2 ended. When that happened the manufacturer was limited in the number of different airplane kits he could produce because of the high cost of making the dies.  More money was required to finance the tooling and factory and skilled  workers. Then the MBA's stepped in and the choices of aircraft became limited and was determined by money people, whose love was limited to the cash.

WNW is thus an old fashioned one owner company. A wonderful throw back to the old days between the wars.

For that reason alone I heap much kudos on WNW and wish them well. I also put my money where my mouth is and I own most of their kits. I also buy the new ones as they come out. 

 

Thus I read these posts where the guys are telling the owners what models to produce and I laugh and laugh and laugh. Yes, I do the same myself in my efforts to get them to produce the Val and Kate in 1/32 and I laugh at myself for doing so. 

Well, as long as we are having a good time and can occasionally get a kit of a different airplane once in a while, hell, why not have a laugh.  :rofl:

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I am not telling them what to produce( like they would listen to me!)  I do not do any WW1   and I was thinking about Rickenbacker and the Hat in the ring and had an aha moment  only to find out  it was not on his list of AC.  not a biggie I just thought with the  buying power of the CONUS it would be a natural.  He can do what ever he wants it is his company.  I will look around for the  old hobby craft...

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Peter doesn't seem to be into French WWI aircraft for some reason.

 

Or Italian aircraft.  Or...

So? It is his company and his money and he can do whatever he damn well wants to.

If I were in his shoes I would include Italian and French WW1 aircraft. But I am not in his shoes so I will be  happy to buy whatever he offers me. 

Simple.

:punk:

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I've never read anywhere that they had discounted doing a Fokker D.VII, and they never said they wouldn't do a Camel (or a Dr.I, for that matter), just that they had no plans to do so (this was back in 2012). As soon as the 'good' Hobbycraft kit went out of production, they started designing theirs.

 

If Peter Jackson wakes up tomorrow and thinks, 'Man, I'd love to build a SPAD XIII' we'll see one in due course.

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If Peter Jackson wakes up tomorrow and thinks, 'Man, I'd love to build a SPAD XIII' we'll see one in due course.

Wrong marketing strategy in my eyes, but on the other hand it seem's to work. Nice to see that sort of planes still have an audience that are happy with the release in 1/32 scale. To me 3 times in a row is just to much to believe......Camel, Dolphin and Junkers D.1 are not on my most wanted list but that's off course a personal matter. I do have the Camel in my stash but just because i wanted the LVG C.VI so i bought the Duelist kit and that is on the other hand the positieve side of this company, they are full of surprises and maybe one day..........

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I've never read anywhere that they had discounted doing a Fokker D.VII, and they never said they wouldn't do a Camel (or a Dr.I, for that matter), just that they had no plans to do so (this was back in 2012). As soon as the 'good' Hobbycraft kit went out of production, they started designing theirs.

 

If Peter Jackson wakes up tomorrow and thinks, 'Man, I'd love to build a SPAD XIII' we'll see one in due course.

 

I have a HobbyCraft SPAD XIII, and in comparing it to the old Revell 1/28th scale kit, in terms of features, frankly it comes up a little "short" in three areas:

  1. The decal sheet does not include the American star wheel-cover markings typically shown on Rickenbacker's SPAD, and is conveniently omitted in their painting/decal diagram.
  2. A very poor rigging diagram, combined with the painting and decal placement guide being on the bottom of the box.
  3. No detailed 1/32 scale of the famous Hispano-Suiza aircraft engine!

Now the first item can be argued as to weather the stars were added to dress up his plane after the war, etc.

 

The second item is a pain, and can add to the general fatigue of a build, especially when sorting out the complex French camouflage pattern and colors. And, it begs the obvious question, "What if the box gets worn/damaged"? In my case, I would break out the instructions from my Revell kit, but how many people have those handy?

 

But, now for a 1/32 scale model to exclude the "cutting edge technology" aircraft engine that made it the formidable fighting machine that it was is not a "minor omission", especially for the larger scale aircraft modeler. To put it bluntly, it was a "cop-out".

 

Even the model maker Roden includes a nice rendition of this radical-departure design engine in their SPAD VII's!

 

That would mean Peter Jackson's key worry should be that engine, because the increased HP geared-prop Hispano-Suiza  engine used in the 'XIII was not the same one used in the earlier 'VII, and therefore the Wolseley Viper copy used in the SE5a would not be exact either.

 

The other headache is in building either of the Revell or Roden kits, when it comes to fitting the rocker-arm cover fairings, because they are molded solid, they don't fit!

They interfere with the rocker covers because of the close-fit tolerance needed, as they real ones are actually made from perforated and formed sheet metal.

 

That leaves the builder with three choices:

  1. Leave the engine partly unassembled, omitting the rocker-covers, making the engine look like a "flat-head V-8".
  2. Display the model with the upper cowling's off, fully revealing the engine
  3. Figure out a way to fabricate/form some sort of thin perforated, elongated-tear-drop shaped sheet metal covers.

And then there is the fact that the 'XIII was licensed to be made by different manufacturers, so you had minor variations such as squared vs. rounded wingtips, circular vs. a more "boxy" looking radiator with rounded corners, etc.

 

 

Oh well, decisions, decisions, eh?

 

And we know how the average kit-builder hates making difficult decisions, especially with Mr. Jackson's "high-ground" prices.

Edited by Gigant
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I've never read anywhere that they had discounted doing a Fokker D.VII, and they never said they wouldn't do a Camel

 

I did. In more places than one. People asked and

someone from WNW said no. Folks were wondering

why they would leave out such 'important' a/c.

Then they didn't. It just shows that you never

know what they're going to do til they do it.

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Not doubting you at all, it's just that I've been tracking WNW practically since day one and I'd never heard them say that they had no intention of doing the Fokker D.VII. The Dr.I and the Camel were essentially 'never say never, but we have no current plans', but nothng for the D.VII.

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I think this is a case of adding 1 and 1 and getting 11. Someone asked WNW "are you doing X?" and they said "No". Then someone deduced from that answer that that "not touching it" was a strict and unbreakable company policy in perpetuity. 

Even the Camel is not proof of anything. WNW did not lie when they said "No". They simply meant that they were not working on one at that time when they were asked. Even so, why should they tell about their projects before they are ready? All manufacturers are asked all the time about future projects and they often give non-committal answers. Why would WNW be different? 

Are they doing what you want? The answer is right in front of your eyes. Look at the back of every assembly manual in every kit. That is their development team. How many models do you think a team like that can bring to market in an year? Two? Four? Six? Design takes time and there is only so much a team can do. To me it looks like they are working their way through the subjects and the time of the subject you want will come eventually.

Radu 

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If WNW never released another kit, I already have enough to likely see me out! And I only (usually!!) get the Brit subjects, and I am stil seven or eight behind the curve at the moment!!

 

Mind you, if they did a Sopwith Strutter or Baby, or a 504, or an FE8, or a Vickers Gunbus, or a Short 184........

 

See? Beyond help. Utterly.......

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I think this is a case of adding 1 and 1 and getting 11. Someone asked WNW "are you doing X?" and they said "No". Then someone deduced from that answer that that "not touching it" was a strict and unbreakable company policy in perpetuity. 

Even the Camel is not proof of anything. WNW did not lie when they said "No". They simply meant that they were not working on one at that time when they were asked. Even so, why should they tell about their projects before they are ready? All manufacturers are asked all the time about future projects and they often give non-committal answers. Why would WNW be different? 

Are they doing what you want? The answer is right in front of your eyes. Look at the back of every assembly manual in every kit. That is their development team. How many models do you think a team like that can bring to market in an year? Two? Four? Six? Design takes time and there is only so much a team can do. To me it looks like they are working their way through the subjects and the time of the subject you want will come eventually.

Radu 

Indeed. There's two things going on here. WNW never said that they wouldn't do a Camel or a Dr.I, only that (back in 2012) they had no plans to do so. They've also said that they have no intention of producing a kit that's already readily available, and thus far they've stuck with that philosophy (the exceptions being the Sopwith Tripane, SE.5a and DH.2 that were in development at the same time as the Roden kits). It could be argued that the Camel broke this rule, as the Academy/Italeri versions are still available - but they are very much inferior to the revised Hobbycraft kit that's now OOP.

 

None of us know what's coming next from WNW - if there's a subject you really want, it's just a case of waiting and seeing.

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