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F7F-3 Tigercat - BuNo 80405 - VMF 312 MCAS - El Toro, CA 1946


Out2gtcha

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aerodynamics says there cant be a lot of weight on the nosewheel, if there was it couldnt rotate on takeoff or manouvere very well.....

 

Does it? What about the action of the tailplane then?

 

I'm fairly convinced we are seeing an engine run up in that picture with the plane held against the brakes. It would be an easier picture to take than of a moving aeroplane

 

Richard

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Does it? What about the action of the tailplane then?

 

I'm fairly convinced we are seeing an engine run up in that picture with the plane held against the brakes. It would be an easier picture to take than of a moving aeroplane

 

Richard

The tailplane and elevator have to rotate the aircraft about the main gear as an axis at relativly low speeds,, if cg is too far forwards and theres a lot of weight in front of it, they cant, just as on approach, with the same weight set up, the tailplane/ elevator run out of' authority' and the aircrraft at best cant flare and at worst goes in nose first... Edited by Markjames1968
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Exactly. In the end, even with nearly 10oz of weight in the nose, there will be very little force pushing down on the nose gear when completed.   I really really hate the nose high "California lift" look that the F7F-3 and Ta-154 usually have.

 

I will be correcting that on my model.   The following pics are much closer to the attitude that I will be shooting for on my model in the end:

Great work mate.

 

If I can offer some advice regarding the stance of your completed model. Have you got any good reference pics from the period that you are depicting your model? Looking at my collection of models now I can see quite a few of the ones that I changed the geometry of the kit undercarriage to suit particular photos that I found. Most of the period photos of the Tigercat that I have been able to locate show that they are very tail heavy and sit nose high. A big clue is also the torsion/scissor links (which are not present on the Hph built example)which show that they are near or on max extension.

I reckon if you can make it so that the oleos and scissor links can be easily removed and refitted, once the model is almost complete and before painting, you can have a look at the photos and get yourself down to the same eye level on your model and really have a play at getting a suitable `sit' of the model which will make a big difference in the long run. A perfect example in my collection is my Trumpeter Skyhawk which if it was left in the flat attitude that the kit demanded would have looked wrong if I hadn't shortened the main undercarriage and jacked up the front nose gear leg. I did this according to many reference photos and it looks as it did in those.

 

Eric.

Edited by ericg
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Thanks Eric. Yes, that is almost exactly what I plan on doing.

 

I stumbled upon some "Turkey injector" marinade a few years ago, and after using the giant syringe to inject our Thanksgiving turkey, I kept the stainless steel injector needle tube.

I found after a good polishing with a soft exacto bit and some metal polish, that these tubes made perfect oleo struts for a LOT of 1/32nd MLG.

 

Coincidentally enough, they're also within a hairs breath of being sized perfect for the F7Fs MLG oleo as well.

 

The loose plan atm is to fix and mount up the upper part of the MLG as needed and detailed, and use the injector needles as oleos, fitting them up, but not attaching them.

Same with the nose gear, getting the upper part of the actuator and hydraulic assemblies glued in to the nose well, and leaving the oleo until final assembly.

 

This way, I can fully adjust the stance of the airframe after the wings fuselage, nacelles and empannage are attached.

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The tailplane and elevator have to rotate the aircraft about the main gear as an axis at relativly low speeds,, if cg is too far forwards and theres a lot of weight in front of it, they cant, just as on approach, with the same weight set up, the tailplane/ elevator run out of' authority' and the aircrraft at best cant flare and at worst goes in nose first...

 

sounds like you know your aerodynamics...... :piliot:

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Ok, gentlemen, I have to get something up front here.

 

Last night I had a talk with a friend. He mentioned he was having trouble following/liking my WIP, as he felt it came off quite negative about the kit. This is a valid assessment after looking over the thread, and it in part is due to my own personal attachment, feelings and opinions about the kit.  

 

This is a shame, as it was and has NEVER been my intention to discredit the kit, nor HpH.  This would be just plain wrong, as there is a lot to love about this kit, and a lot of gorgeous detail to be had. 

I think in my perceived duties to review a new kit that the modeler will have to plunk down loads of cash for, I feel like I have let my own personal opinions sway too heavily on this build.

This was never my intention. My intention was and is to bring to light the bad and the good of the kit, which there quite a bit of both actually, and in the end, let the modelers themselves choose if the kit is worth the asking price with the issues it has.  

 

From what I have dry fit so far, the fit of the kit is not overall bad here either. I believe I do however owe a certain obligation to other modelers, being one of the first hand full of people to start to build the kit, to let them know what they will be getting if they choose to invest in the HpH Tigercat. 

 

The kit is in-fact hand made, and as most of us know with any resin building experience at all, resin kits are not Tamiya "shake-and-bake" kits that just fall together. The Tigercat is no exception, and when building resin kits like this even with the expense of the kit, one has to know that they are getting a kit that is from a cottage industry that is going to require some effort on your part to come together and fit right.

I fully expected this and was ready for this having built HpH, Silver wings and FM&P kits prior. 

 

To be honest though what I didnt expect is some of the errors made to have been completely preventable, with just a touch more thoroughness and attention to detail.

This is not to say the whole kit is like this.   

 

It was also mentioned to me that my WIP is pushing people away from the kit. For this I am sorry as well, as that was also not my intent. But here again, I feel it is my duty to review the kit accurately to what I am encountering.

I realize this is a short run kit, and I fully accept that I am going to always have some fitment issues to take car of myself, but what I never expect to do on most any high end kit, is to have to take care of some of the engineering of the kit for the kit maker. 

 

The bottom line for me is this:

From now on, I will try to keep my personal opinions of the kit in a much less prominent position, and concentrate on building the kit.  Whatever that means, weather that means scratch building, modifying something, or just following the instructions OOB.  This way the modeler can see what I am doing, and why, with (hopefully) less of my own personal disappointment in having to do some of this work involved.

It does make me a bit sad that the WIP is going like this so far, but again, it is what it is and  intent was never to intentionally push people away from HpH or the kit.

 

 

I still stand by my IBR, and definitely do recommend the kit, even with the issues up to this point.  Please, if you like the Tigercat in 32nd this is a very nice kit, go out and buy it!

It just has issues that need to be noted before one buys the kit. 

 

 

As stated above, I will from now on try to tone down my own personal issues with the kit, and will try to be a bit more neutral, and let those who want to purchase the kit make their own minds up.

 

That is all. 

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