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Making your own transfers


GuildAero

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I'm, sorry, wunwinglow, you've lost me!  The only separation I understand is drawing each layer (colour) in black with gunsight registrations.  Silk screen seems almost dead and Fantasy Printshop are frighteningly expensive.  We need decals sets to be made at up to 40 a time for model car liveries mainly, but will need them for aircraft too if our pairs sets idea takes off.  I'm sure I've read where people just scan at a high res. and then print.  May have been model railways.  But then, newspapers, advertising signs, etc., etc. are all printed that way and look fine.

Initially, we want just black or very dark green words.....QUAKER STATE, BRITISH LEYLAND, EP, and the numbers 44 right way round and back to front.  Ask your chum who's into cars if that all sounds mysterious. We need those in 1/43rd, 1/32nd and 1/24th scales.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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Essentially the process is identical, just using a PC to draw rather than CS10 and a Rotring.... All you know already is just the same!!

 

I have no printing facilities and for waterslide designs I would go straight to Ray at Fantasyprintshop. No commercial links, just a happy customer a few years ago.

Edited by wunwinglow
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Right, thanks, so if I did what I always did, generally 4 times larger and told them to reduce to 25%, they could just scan my large pen a/w and reduce so it's crisp.

I did something as fine as wood grain in 3 colours in 1/76th scale for a model 50 foot powerboat interior and it was as crisp as you like and Fairline loved it.  That was good enough for anyone.

 

I think if you asked Fantasy Printshop now, you might get a shock.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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So, what, exactly do you draw these days for a decal job?  Full colour, just like the real thing?  Or black per colour like we used to with registrations?  What does a decal maker expect to get from the a/w provider?  If scanned twice size at high res. what's wrong with that when it's reduced as a/w?

 

Martin

 

 

You need to use scaleable, layer based, vector based graphics for accurate resizing.  Raster graphics will just turn to crap when you rescale them... Microsoft Paint will not work for anything that needs scaling.  For doing decals, I use Adobe Illustrator.  There are other programs out there but I've found illustrator to be the best for vector based graphics.  Unfortunately, you can't buy a standalone copy of the latest version of Illustrator any more (to the best of my knowledge).  Everything Adobe is doing now is cloud based and you pay a monthly (or annual) subscription fee.  I use Illustrator 10 which is about 100 years removed from the latest version and it works fine for my needs.  You may be able to find CS2 or 3 standalone on Ebay or someplace. 

 

I too have an Alps MD-1300 printer I bought off Ebay several years ago (for around $150 or so).  I bought a shipload of cartridges (Alps is the only REASONABLY priced printer that will print white) including Silver, Gold and a lifetime supply of white.  Many of the Alps colors require a white spot print (undercoat if you will) so the overprinted colors will show correctly (aka reds, yellows, etc).  If you don't use the spot print of white, you'll end up with translucent decals. 

 

Alps does have its limitations though.  In some cases, if you're printing shades of yellow (happens with other colors too) for example, if the color is not near to what the cartridge color is, you'll end up with little, teeney-weenie spots of red or whatever color necessary to trick your eye to seeing the color you've chosen.  If you look closely though, you can see those little dots on the printed output, effectively ruining any chance of using it for a decal.  Sometimes it's very obvious, other times you can't even tell.  Greys are another color that it happens with, especially the modern shades of grey on today's jets.  It does do Pantone colors reasonably well so keep that in mind.  The "ink" used in Alps printers is actually a sort of wax and it is heated, melted and sprayed onto the surface of the paper.  Consequently, if you scratch the image with your fingernail, you'll ruin the image.  Overcoating the decal image with clear gloss will help protect the image but otherwise use a lot of care when handling Alps printed decals.  The do not require an overcoat prior to being placed in water for use. a definite plus vs. inkjet printed decals. 

 

For one-off applications, the Alps is fine and you can create some awesome decals with it.  However, if you're looking for commercial use, you'll need to create the art (subject to the printers conditions) and submit it to them for printing.  I don't know if ink silkscreen printing is still being used as the common method but nevertheless, you'll need to provide your artwork to conform to their needs for the process to work.  Jennings knows way more about this process so if that's what you're after, he is your go-to source for information.

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So, what, exactly do you draw these days for a decal job?  Full colour, just like the real thing?  Or black per colour like we used to with registrations?  What does a decal maker expect to get from the a/w provider?  If scanned twice size at high res. what's wrong with that when it's reduced as a/w?

 

Hi Martin, if it's a single color image then you can create it in black and choose a color later.

As has be said, vector images are by far the best as you can change it's size without affecting

the definition / sharpness of any angles or curves because vector images have no pixels.

Since your artwork will be scanned, it doesn't matter what size you create it at. After it's scanned into

the vector program it is then traced and resized to whatever you want.

Anyone who prints decals , whether on a printer or silkscreen , will need vector images to work with.

 

I'd recommend looking to Youtube to help you get a better idea of what you're

getting into regarding both printing (with an Alps) and vector creating.

If it were simple and inexpensive, everybody would be doing it  :)

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Ah, but, mmaben, it did used to be simple and inexpensive.  Believe me I've never had a surfeit of money yet would always have enough to go to any of the three silk screen outfits in my small town and get  20 or 30 sets of multi colour decals done for very little money just by drawing the image with a Mars pen twice size in black and a note of the Pantone codes for the colours.

 

I don't get this scaling problem. If I draw it twice or even 4 times size and then reduce it, it will be crisp as you like. I don't tend to make mistakes, or rather, I might make 'em but I correct them before sending the final reduced a/w off, so changes don't need to be made.  It's like the old sage advice to measure twice and cut once.  I did exactly the same with p/e a/w and never had a fault on one of those many pen drawn frets.

 

Now, I can't even understand what you're all talking about....layer based vector graphics?  WTF?  I know Photoshop is done with layers , but I never got the hang of them and I no longer have PS or Illustrator like I once did, since the computer man took them off and didn't replace them during a repair session.

 

Alps printers sound like they're not as good as they're cracked up to be.  And few people have one any more.

 

I still refer you to the people who would draw or paint or steal images and then scan at a high res and print in colour onto decal sheet with success. Does nobody do that any more either?

 

I think I must just try that first to see what they look like . If that doesn't work, then it will get painted, but thanks for your help folks.

 

Martin

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Part of the problem is that you're not clear on what you want to do.

Silkscreen or print. Forget about the past. If silkscreening is too

expensive then you'll have to print. Do you want to print yourself

or have someone else do it for you ?  Either way , you'll be dealing

with one of two types of images. Raster ( .jpg , bmp , etc. ) or

vector ( pdf, svg, ai, eps, dxf ). If you want to just scan your a/w

as a .jpg or .bmp , and print it on an inkjet , that's when creating

your a/w at 400% and printing at 25% at 600dpi is necessary to

achieve a finer resolution outcome. I 've done that before I learned

to create vector images.

If using an Alps (for the finest resolution) you can print a raster image

(not as fine as a vector) by using the 400/25 method , or have your

a/w scanned into a vector program and have it traced to a vector image

That's where the size of your original a/w doesn't matter as a vector

image is sizeable to whatever you want.

It all depends on what your goal is. Discussing your options is not a

simple proposition and as you can see it's not condusive to a simple

online discussion.

Good luck to you in any case  :thumbsup:

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Thanks, Mike, I have drawn lettering for what I want and my son has found some on the 'net and cleaned them up on Photoshop. I don't have Photoshop any more since it was lost when my last PC was mended and he never replaced it.. So, I create letters and symbols with a pen and when reduced they're just fine.  I don't need to change them as I beleive in a "measure twice, cut once" mentality. My son will do all the repeating and scaling and his ink jet will print them on clear decal film. The two tone green will be spray painted on the same decal sheet.  

I won't play these tech-snobs games and I don't need to, since I can do it by hand as I always have.  I just thought there might be some silk screeners around who still had the negs and chemistry as they always did, but no, alas.

 

Etching has gone even further that way.  But I do have one company who can accept pen a/w.

 

Martin

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Mike, far from sorted. That company will do me some parts for a master I'm making as they did once before. The actual production etchings are further away than ever as the two companies approached refused to accept the a/w done for me by a professional CAD lady.  The decals we seem to have sorted with some in black, made by us and a sheet of general Group 44 decals available from a gent in America very reasonably.  I'm hoping any other schemes will already be covered, but we also have a lead on 2 other decal companies who may be able to help us.

 

Jennings, maybe you could direct me to some of these "dozens" of silk screeners, but if they are as expensive as Fantasy, please don't bother.  I'm very well aware of the silk screen process. I used to stand and watch the people who used to make my decals from my pen a/w doing it.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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Martin, I think you are making this out to be far more complicated than it really is!! The screen printing process just needs an ink/no ink image for each colour you want to lay on the paper. That's still the same.

 

To put that image on the screen, you need a film with that image on it to expose the screen making ink and solidify it to form the mask and allow the rest to be washed away. That is exacty the same.

 

The printer will need some registration marks to line up subsequent layers. That is exactly the same.

 

The images you will need for each patch of ink on your final decal will be EXACTLY the same, so your research into the size and form will also be EXACTLY the same.

 

The ONLY difference in all this is how you prepare the artwork. If you can wield a Rotring pen to good effect, I suggest you understand what imagery you need, and ALL we are looking at is your resistance to trying to use a computer program to generate the artwork. I can only encourage you to try it, because the entire rest of the world does it that way, not just because they are idiots, or it is some Microsoft conspiracy to deskill the worlds population, not because kids can't use pencils anymore due to using PlayStation all the time or any of the other nonsense excuses my mother flings at me as an excuse for not even trying to use a tablet.....

 

No. The entire world now uses Illustrator or CorelDraw or Inkscape etc to make their artwork for waterslide decals, because it is IN EVER RESPECT, better than CS10 and a Rotring pen. I know, because I too learned on Rotring pens, I trained to use a Littlejohn graphics camera, I had years of making films for screens and etching brass, so I do know what I am talking about.

 

Martin, have a go with Inkscape. It is free. Have a go. Ask questions. But have a go.

 

Because you might, just might, discover why the rest of the world left Rotring pens behind at least 25 years ago.....

 

Have a go..

Edited by wunwinglow
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Martin, have a go with Inkscape. It is free. Have a go. Ask questions. But have a go.

 

Which ever program you choose , you absolutely MUST learn

about it on Youtube. Don't bother with books as they'll only confuse

and greatly lengthen the process. Learning about digital image creation

'requires' you to hear and see what's going on.

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=inkscape+tutorials+for+beginners

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I've never heard of Inkscape.  I don't have any luck even downloading stuff. Never have. And I'm too busy doing other things to try learning something which is not noticeably any better than doing it with a pen,  for me anyway.  I'm told Coreldraw users can trace or scan pen a/w, but I don't see that mentioned ever.  And even if I did they'd likely charge more for doing it than I can ever get for making a model per hour, which would just annoy me.

 

No thanks, you lot play the techie's games if you like, I have better things to do than HAVE to learn something I haven't time to do.  And for what I want, I have a way already.

 

Thanks for your interests, bordering on concern sometimes.  I'm now off to apply a huge set of decals that somebody else made to a Jaguar Broadspeed XJC, for which I made the master...with chisels and files, well inside a trouble free week.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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