HK B-17...C 5/4 sweating the metal

[brahman104]

Thanks again Jari. Any photo of a B-17 is always appreciated!

 

So being on night shift gained me some time to get the left side structure up to where the right is. I still need to address how I'm going to cover the joins in the ceiling, but I think I have a plan for that. I still need to detail around the tail wheel well, but for now here's a few more pics...

 

 

 

 

Seeing as I was on a roll with making ribs and stringers, I figured I should start on the area under the cockpit where the forward entry door is. This area will be lit and so fairly visible. First things first was the "skin" on the left side as the right already had it. The join at the bottom is not so much of an issue here as there is a catwalk style floor in the centre which will hide the evidence nicely

 

 

This is the second time I did this, because.......

 

 

Idiot me didn't check how the door matched up to my guess at the hole size when I printed the part, so I just cut the metal back to the size of the hole. As you can see, the door is quite a different shape.... Now as I can't add metal that I've already removed, the only option was to install a new piece, fill the gaps with magic sculpt, then trace the actual door's shape and carefully remove only the required amount of material....... 90% of the time I am my own worst enemy.

 

 

Much better. Still got some fine tuning to do but it's getting there....

 

The door on the early models has quite a different internal structure to the later ones, so after thinking about it for a while, I figured modifying the kit part would be the best way to go.

 

 

 

 

I then annealed and formed the inner piece over the remains of the kit part. It took a while, but I got there in the end. 

 

 

Once that was done, I added the internal structure. Fiddly, but fun

 

 

It still needs the door handle and a few other details, but you get the idea....

 

 

And now lastly, even though the door will be open, just to see what it looks like inside....

 

 

Unfortunately, the fuselage sides are quite thick and there's not really a lot I can do about that, but the door rim has a stiffener around its edge anyway, so it will essentially look the same. Once again, the door will be open, but as you can see, it fits in there pretty well!

 

Now that's done, I can continue to build up the structure in this area..... Getting closer to being able to "move in" the various boxes, wires and lines that inhabit the fuselage, so things should start getting a little more exciting soon!

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

[Cees Broere]

Very nicely done. About that window in the rear fuselage. Are you going to leave it like that?

Usually windows had a hoopframe to provide strength.

 

Cheers

Cees

[TKB]

Craig,

 

The interior is looking more and more realistic with each post; your front entry hatch is really a nice piece of work.

I'm sure you already have the info, but just in case you don't, I mention it.

 

O2 Bottles:

 

Six (6) on the left fuselage between Bulkhead #6 and #7 about 2 o'clock position

Six (6) in the radio compartment (2 visible stacked under table and one between aux seats)

Three (3) under cockpit floor

Three (3) in nose opposite navigator

 

I'll send you the diagrams I came across for the O2 system and ammo can storage. They are for a B-17C, but probably would apply to the D.

 

Between the O2 bottles, ammo cans and belly bathtub, thats going to be one busy looking area looking into the main entry door!

 

Shame you weren't able to make Dayton. If antone deserves to be up close to a D --- it's you!

Like you said maybe next time. Memphis Belle is scheduled to be finished in about 6 months and then hopefully the D will get the focused attention and retored as Ole Betsy.

 

The photo of you with the E in Hawaii is very appropriate --- you and the B-17 "face"

 

 

Terry

[brahman104]

Very nicely done. About that window in the rear fuselage. Are you going to leave it like that?

Usually windows had a hoopframe to provide strength.

 

Cheers

Cees

Thank Cees! I think I mentioned it in my last post but yes, I will be adding a hoop frame to the windows, including the nose ones so I can get the shapes right

 

Craig,

 

The interior is looking more and more realistic with each post; your front entry hatch is really a nice piece of work.

I'm sure you already have the info, but just in case you don't, I mention it.

 

O2 Bottles:

 

Six (6) on the left fuselage between Bulkhead #6 and #7 about 2 o'clock position

Six (6) in the radio compartment (2 visible stacked under table and one between aux seats)

Three (3) under cockpit floor

Three (3) in nose opposite navigator

 

I'll send you the diagrams I came across for the O2 system and ammo can storage. They are for a B-17C, but probably would apply to the D.

 

Between the O2 bottles, ammo cans and belly bathtub, thats going to be one busy looking area looking into the main entry door!

 

Shame you weren't able to make Dayton. If antone deserves to be up close to a D --- it's you!

Like you said maybe next time. Memphis Belle is scheduled to be finished in about 6 months and then hopefully the D will get the focused attention and retored as Ole Betsy.

 

The photo of you with the E in Hawaii is very appropriate --- you and the B-17 "face"

 

 

Terry

Thanks Terry! Yes I would have loved to get to the swoose...... there are a few YouTube tours on line but unfortunately most of the people taking them only flash a brief second or two of it..... so tantalisingly close yet so frustratingly far!!!!

 

Once again very timely info as I will be turning my attention to the oxygen system soon.... one thing I can't seem to track down is the dimensions for the bottles....... the perspective of the photos with bottles in them seems to indicate them being pretty big, but it's hard to judge...... I know the diagram you are thinking of so I might have to once again go best guess unless anyone has that info......

 

Just the last couple of days I've also been wondering if depicting a C instead of a D model would actually be cooler..... lack of cowl flaps, only a single gun in the radio room and bathtub so as not to obscure the view inside when the model is done........ at least those details can be pretty much added right at the end, what do you reckon?

 

I was also reading about mass balances for the elevators..... I thought I could almost make them out in photos but I'm not sure..... thoughts????

[Finn]

Craig, i don't know if you have seen this pic or not:

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/default/files/images/collection-objects/record-images/NASM-XRA-0119.jpg

 

Jari

[TKB]

Craig,

 

The "standard" O2 bottles (the ones with reinforcement straping) we usually see in USAAF heavy bombers are mostly described as being ~24 inches long with a diameter of  ~12 inches..

 

Just conjecture on my part, but the prior type (smooth surface) used in early B-17s was pretty close to those dimensions, but made from a heavier gauge metal. The change to the reinforced type was most likely cost and easier to mass produce.

 

Terry

[brahman104]

Thanks Terry!

 

I've just been reading your email about this and a few other bits and pieces too. Agreed, what little I've been able to find would suggest the same in regards to the dimensions, so as you said, I think the best way forward is to eyeball and go from there. 

 

Time to go and have a bit of a play around with the kit

 

Craig

[brahman104]

Just been playing around with some kit and aftermarket oxygen bottles.....

 

 

They come close to what I have seen in terms of length to fit between the 6 & 7 bulkheads, but I'm still not convinced about the diameter. To my eye, they still look a little on the thin side, and bearing in mind when I sand them down to make them smooth, they will be even thinner..... 

 

Going along with Terry's dimensions, 12 inches roughly equates to 9.3mm. If I were to sand down the above, they would end up closer to 7mm.

 

I also (for comparative purposes, posed some of my 3D printed specials from way back at the beginning of the build.....

 

 

Yeah, not so much either.....

 

I then started thinking about modifying some existing model part, namely a bomb. After a bit of hunting around, ironically the 1/48 monogram B-17 bombs gave me the closest match at 9.8mm. I think we have a winner! I'll see how I go at making one, then hopefully I can cast as many as I need. 

 

Stay tuned!

 

Craig

[Finn]

Here is an O2 bottle for the ball turret that may give you an idea as to the size:

 

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e65be7fdb41aac7e_large

 

here is another one:

 

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/b5b5514e17b1cb15_large

 

Jari

Edited September 26, 2017 by Finn

[TKB]

Craig,

 

I see what you mean.

The kit/aftermarket O2 bottle length looks good, but a tad thin. With the reinforcement straping removed, they would look undernourished.

Both the smooth and reinforced types originals definately have a "portly" look to them.

 

Think you're on the right track going with the bomb (and your famous calibrated eye!) approach.

Good ole Monogram to the rescue!

 

Terry

[AlexM]

Hey Craig, great progress! Maybe the oxygen bottles can be turned from a wooden stick of the desired diameter, with the surface details recreated by thin tape

 

Cheers

Alex

[patricksparks]

Just been playing around with some kit and aftermarket oxygen bottles.....

 

 

They come close to what I have seen in terms of length to fit between the 6 & 7 bulkheads, but I'm still not convinced about the diameter. To my eye, they still look a little on the thin side, and bearing in mind when I sand them down to make them smooth, they will be even thinner..... 

 

Going along with Terry's dimensions, 12 inches roughly equates to 9.3mm. If I were to sand down the above, they would end up closer to 7mm.

 

I also (for comparative purposes, posed some of my 3D printed specials from way back at the beginning of the build.....

 

 

Yeah, not so much either.....

 

I then started thinking about modifying some existing model part, namely a bomb. After a bit of hunting around, ironically the 1/48 monogram B-17 bombs gave me the closest match at 9.8mm. I think we have a winner! I'll see how I go at making one, then hopefully I can cast as many as I need. 

 

Stay tuned!

 

Craig

I saw some original tanks for sale on ebay, they called out dimensions, two of them stated size as : 24" X 12", one was listed at 23" X 11", knowing U.S. manufacturing my guess would be 24" X 12" is more than likely the dims.

[brahman104]

Howdy!

 

After another stint away for a few weeks I'm back. This one was work related, we were up in Papua New Guinea for a few weeks doing some high altitude training. We have to go there because the mountains in Australia aren't high enough! It was a pretty busy time, but we still managed to find a few moments for a little "heli-tourism" here and there

 

New Guinea is rich in World War 2 history, and you don't have to look far to find reminders of what happened 70 odd years ago. Just in front of the control tower at the international airport in Port Moresby you can still clearly see the earth revetments used to house B-17's. Unfortunately, development is slowly erasing most of the signs, but there are still a few gems to be found, such as these.....

 

 

This is the remains of a type 21 zero. It cash landed in swampy ground in May 1942 after being hit by anti-aircraft fire during a strafing run on 7 mile airstrip. The pilot was taken prisoner and survived the war. This was about as close as I could get to it, despite my determination, as our Chinook started to sink in the muddy ground every time we tried to land there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I imagine a lot of you will recognise this one. This is the famous "black cat" B-17E which crash landed on a hillside not far from Wau in 1943. It is accessible by foot but we managed to find a place about 50 metres away to land for a few minutes and check it out. It is remarkably intact considering the terrain; the guys did a magnificent job of putting it down the way they did. Unfortunately its accessibility is also a curse; it has been picked clean by souvenir hunters over the years and subject to the local pass time of burning off grass. When we landed at Wau the locals told us they were quite concerned we were there to retrieve the wreck and take it back to Australia. This has been a sore point with the local populace in recent years with aircraft like the "Swamp Ghost" and a few others. It is sad to see so many rare and potentially restorable planes left to rot in the bush, but I can also see that their presence is a source of income for the communities. 

 

And of course here's one of yours truely; looking after the aircraft while the others were investigating an abandoned Catholic mission...

 

 

Anyway, I did get a day off when I got home, so once I kicked some small spiders out of my B-17, it got stuck in to something I'd been putting off for a while. When the two fuselage halves are finally joined, there will be quite an ugly and visible gap running down the centre, so I determined that I'd make some false roof inserts to hide it. The reason I'd been putting it off was that I didn't know how I was going to derive the shape of each piece.

 

 

Eventually, I settled on making masking tape templates and lots of dry fitting, but after a while I had some pieces which would do the job..

 

 

Now I'm adding rib detail to each piece before I can run the control cables and other details along the top.

 

Looking up from inside, it looks reasonably convincing.....

 

 

 

 

 

While I was away, my order of EZ line turned up. I'd been disappointed with the nylon based thread I'd used in the bomb bay, which seemed to sag badly at the slightest hint of moisture, so very carefully I managed to remove all the existing thread. I have no idea how I'm going to redo this, but that's a future Craig problem......

 

 

Lastly, I also played around with my master oxygen bottle. It's the one in the middle and as you can see it's ever so slightly larger than the kit part, but once it's cleaned up and cast I think the difference will be worth the effort.

 

That's all for now

 

Craig

 

 

[ClumsyDude]

Jeez you're good ...

 

Jim

[LSP_Kevin]

Great update, Craig!

 

Kev