Adolf Galland 109E question

[Artful69]

Do have evidence any of these actually flew in combat?

 

I have records of every German a/c shot down over Britain and no 109s - where armament was recorded - had a cannon firing through the hub.

 

Still very suspicious!

 

 

As I said ...

 

... It was notoriously unreliable though (the engine mounted gun), and thats why production was halted in favour of the E-1's and E-3's ...

 

 

To make it clear though ... The E-2 was a prototype for a more heavily armed Bf109E (as opposed to the E-1 which was currently in production)

The type was abandoned after trials due to the afore mentioned unreliability issues ... and the E-3 format (dropping the engine armament) adopted for production run instead.

 

So I guess my wording was chosen incorrectly ... Rather than "production was halted", I probably should have stated "it never made it to production" ... although the E-2 variation had already been allocated.

 

Adding to confusion ... theres a photo getting about of an "E-2" (this designation is also dubious) with what looks like a blast tube protruding through the spinner - It is, in fact, a tow cable attachment.

The original cannon was designed with the blast tube inside the spinner.

 

In any case ... There was an E variant with an engine mounted cannon ... although because it never entered into production, it is unlikely any were shot down over Britain!

 

Rog

Edited August 14, 2017 by Artful69

[BiggTim]

His E4's had the cap, however, note that there are two types of caps.  One "factory" looking one that is more pointed, and one "field applied" looking one that is more blunt.  I would suggest picking up the Dragon E4 kit for a Galland 109E4 if you can, as it gives you both types of caps (and looks 100 times better IMHO).

 

 I already have the Trumpy E-4 underway, which has all three spinner types as well. Just trying to decide which one to use, and since I'm no 109 experten, I figured I'd ask you guys. I sure do see a LOT of Emil pics and artwork with holes in the spinners on the internet and in books. Am I to assume that the spinner with the hole was sometimes used even though the Emils didn't have the cannon?

[CANicoll]

Wow, I learned a lot about the E series.

Thank you all!!

Chris

[MikeMaben]

Am I to assume that the spinner with the hole was sometimes used even though the Emils didn't have the cannon?

 

Early on the centerline shaft was left open and used as a vent to the rear

of the engine compartment because the magnetos were overheating. That

problem was solved soon after and (I think) they capped the shaft near the

front of the engine so capping the spinner wasn't a huge improvement.

Some had capped spinners some did not. They became more prevalent

when sent to North Africa for obvious reasons.

They experimented with a centerline cannon on the V3 and I have read

that they tried it again on an E development a/c (E-2) but none were standardized.

I too should have been more specific, no 'operational' Es has centerline guns.

Edited August 15, 2017 by MikeMaben

[BiggTim]

So what I'm getting from this discussion and from what I'm able to find from other sources is that the spinner with the hole (but no cannon) is very common up into the early E-4 series aircraft. Sometime during the E-4 series, it was commonly changed out in the field to the shortest of the two capped versions. So it appears to me that it is plausible that Gallands Emil may have had both at some point in it's life, which might explain the contradictory info out there.

 

Bottom line, I think I'll pick one and go with it! After all, I'm not trying to win any awards with it. Just always wanted to do that plane! Thanks all!

 

Tim

[Artful69]

Wow, I learned a lot about the E series.

Thank you all!!

Chris

 

You're not the only one ... I try to keep an open mind when reading through all the posts in a thread ...

The pilots, ground crews and manufacturers all learned a lot out of experiences of the Spanish Civil War.

 

One of the issues noted was the minimal ballistic capabilities of machine gun fire in damaging enemy A/C ... which is why the idea of the 20mm Cannon was adapted ...

Not only was it a heavier calibre ... but the shell contained an explosive charge ... one or two hits on the enemy A/C - and that's all she wrote!

Of course the English went the other way, initially ... need more hits? - add more small calibre weapons ... hence the 8 Brownings in the Hurricanes and Spitfires.

 

Mounting the heavier calibre weapons in the preferred spot (in front of the pilot, under the cowl) was always going to be problematic ... and left until later.

Through the spinner then? ... possible - but complicated and the weapons were unreliable ... so removed ... Until the issues were fixed in the F series.

But you could replace the wing MG's with a couple of 20mm FF's ... Just.

 

Anyways ... you never know what additional bits you'll pick up!!

 

Such as this one:

 

Early on the centerline shaft was left open and used as a vent to the rear of the engine compartment because the magnetos were overheating. That

problem was solved soon after and (I think) they capped the shaft near the front of the engine so capping the spinner wasn't a huge improvement.

 

 

Now that one, I'd never heard of!! ... I wonder how they solved the overheating magnetos, or why they were in the first place?

 

Rog

[MikeMaben]

Hey ! I read it on the internet ...

 

[Gazzas]

Interesting and informative thread.  Good job!

[Artful69]

Hey ! I read it on the internet ...

 

 

 Bummer ... I thought you were going to give me new reference material!!

 

Rog

[LSP_K2]

 Bummer ... I thought you were going to give me new reference material!!

 

Rog

 

There's already so much on the early 109's, that it's ridiculous. I don't own nearly all of them, but there's a ton.

[MikeMaben]

 Bummer ... I thought you were going to give me new reference material!!

 

Rog

 

Haven't seen any references sited. I originally read about the lack

of a cannon in Es in Cross and Scarborough's not so rare book.

 

 

Like Kevin said, there's a ton of material on the subject.

I've read alot but only own a relative few.

[Artful69]

There's already so much on the early 109's, that it's ridiculous. I don't own nearly all of them, but there's a ton.

  

Haven't seen any references sited. I originally read about the lack

of a cannon in Es in Cross and Scarborough's not so rare book.

 

 

Like Kevin said, there's a ton of material on the subject.

I've read alot but only own a relative few.

It's ok fellas ... I thought there might be another good one to add to the ones I have which are "The Bf.109 Recognition Manual" and the 2 volume Bf.109A-E and F-K books ... they seem to have most of what I need. It's a pity Classic Pubs (now Crècy) never did one

 

Rog

[LSP_K2]

We've yet to completely upgrade the Bf 109E kit database (Dragon kit, most likely), but when we do, that's where we'll have a handy link to the 109E stuff we have in our references area, and it should be quite comprehensive.