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Revell F-14


LSP_Mike

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yes, as already said in this same thread, every 1/32 F-14 kit has its shape problems... for example the turtle-neck of the Revell is the most accurate among all, but at the same time it has very poor detailed u/c legs, missiles and exhausts. OOB to me the best solution would be a kitbash (Tamiya main fuselage + Trumpeter fwd fuselage + Revell neck)

Edited by Luca
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The nose width may be an 'in the eye of the beholder' issue.

 

Without having an actual F-14 to measure, to me the Tamiya nose looks too skinny and doesn't adequately capture the bottom heavy shape of the Tomcat. And yet the actual model measurements are quite close.

 

The Revell nose width in line with the front of the nosewheel bay is 45.3 mm: Tamiya 44.3 mm.

The width at the radome break line is Revell 37.9 mm: Tamiya 35.7 mm

The nose gear bay widths (at fwd. edge) are Revell 19.5 mm: Tamiya 19.9 mm. The Aires width is within workable tolerances for both kits

 

But imho, Revell bring the max width down lower on the fuselage, which helps achieve the 'flattened egg shape' which looks more correct. To me.

 

The Aires nose gear bay is around 3mm too short for the Revell kit, but as the rear wall is quite plain, extending the length slightly isn't a big issue.

The main gear bays are fine for length on the Revell kit, but with the undercut recesses on the real thing being on the resin, I'd venture some fettling with the width will be required whatever the source kit.

 

I chose the Aires F110 nozzle set, and can confirm the approximate diameter to be fair match with the Revell engine bay sizes, but as the shroud contours are different on the later engines, I'm expecting some fun in fitting them.

 

I'm editing this post to include additional info to the measured dimensions given above.

Hoping they're of some further help to someone, somewhere..

 

The fuselage depths of the noses, vertically from the front edge of the windscreen transparency are: Revell 45.3 mm, Tamiya 41.5 mm,

The fuselage depths of the noses  vertically from the top radome break line are: Revell 37.1 mm, Tamiya 34.9 mm,.

 

The fuselage lengths of the noses, horizontally from the front edge of the windscreen transparency are: Revell 92.5 mm, Tamiya 85.5 mm.*

* the length dimensions are less accurate due to the radome end points on both kits being variable, and the uncertainty of being truly horizontal

with hand held calipers. But close enough to report on this thread, give or take a mm.

 

And to sign off again, I further recommend the HAD models etch set (HUN432003) which has a nice replacement brass grille for the

rather anaemically moulded Tamiya detailing of the gun vent just aft of the bulge with the larger NACA intake, and the plain

blank outlined panel Revell provide

.

There's more on it (upper intake vents, slat by slat and appique fin plates among others) but the gun vent alone adds a nice touch of fine detail, if your model has the final gun vent type.

 

Proportions are often perceived differently - I for one think it's just the other way 'round. Revell's forward fuselage lacks elegance, it looks just too fat to me. On the real a/c, the fuselage cross sections flatten more aft than on the Revell fuselage - which Tamiya captured correctly IMO. In addition, the Revell nose section seems to be too curved on top seen from side which makes the nose look even fatter.

 

Dimensions don't always tell the truth but they can certainly point out which direction to follow. As you can see, even very small differences can have a huge impact on overall proportions. 

 

A big issue with the Revell kit is the windscreen - just check out the following (bad) comparison shots between the fuselage with the Revell (1st pic) and the Tamiya windshield. Please note that I have already slightly enlarged the windscreen cutout to allow the Tamiya part to be properly fitted.

 

Revell windscreen - way too flat and too wide, canopy frames aren't correct either.

IMG_2309.jpg

 

 

Tamiya windscreen - correctly proportioned IMO, a huge improvement. 

IMG_2308.jpg

 

Length comparison between Revell an Tamiya with the cockpit cutouts aligned. Revell is indeed much longer in front of the canopy which in my opinion is not correct.

IMG_2307.jpg

 

By the way, please don't get me wrong - I am not arguing about dimensions. I'm not aiming for a perfect Tomcat based on the Revell kit, I want a properly proportioned one, no matter if the thing might be 5mm short or whatever. Not even talking about surface detail...

 

this is the main drawback of the Tamiya cat IMHO... the front fuselage is getting tighter (in height) as it approaches the pitot tube, and her sections near the windshield are always too circular instead of "pear-shaped", whereas it should be circular ONLY near the pitot...

 

i1124540_f14t.jpg

 

grumman-f-14b-tomcat-tamiya.jpg

 

8900af679f456696b6708ba48aadcd3c.jpg

 

Putting a kit onto a drawing is always very dangerous and rarely proves anything if it's not a factory drawing - and even factory drawings released to the public aren't always perfectly accurate!

 

Then, I definitely disagree - it is rather obvious that the radome and forward fuselage section, whilst certainly slightly flattened at the bottom, looks like a slightly squashed circle where the radome meets the fuselage. Tamiya's radome might be slightly too round at the bottom but is way closer to reality than the Revell offering.

 

F-14-pic3-1.jpg

 

US%20Navy%20F-14.jpg

 

there-isnt-a-fighter-pilot-alive-that-do

 

I think the Tamiya radome (and windscreen) is the key to reshaping the Revell forward fuselage. I have cast a copy of my (slightly reshaped) Tamiya radome and will try to modify the Revell fuselage in order to combine both.

 

IMG_2305.jpg

 

IMG_2306.jpg

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I think the Tamiya radome (and windscreen) is the key to reshaping the Revell forward fuselage. I have cast a copy of my (slightly reshaped) Tamiya radome and will try to modify the Revell fuselage in order to combine both.

 

IMG_2305.jpg

 

IMG_2306.jpg

 

:o  :goodjob:

 

any chance you make the same mold for the Trumpy A-10 nose?  :whistle:

Edited by Luca
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Length comparison between Revell an Tamiya with the cockpit cutouts aligned. Revell is indeed much longer in front of the canopy which in my opinion is not correct.

 

IMG_2307.jpg

 

 

 

I have seen several F-14 side photos and the "feeling" is that the Tamiya radome is shorter and lower than the due (as it approaches the pitot). This photo seems to confirm it...

 

i1124652_tomc.jpg

 

take a look at the proportions between X and Y...

If someone could make an overlay between the two pictures you could notice better ... still look at the height of the windshield compared to the height of the fwd fuselage at the beginning and end of the windshield itself ...

Edited by Luca
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Looking at the pic, Tamiya's tomcat MIGHT need some more volume on top of the nose, but overlaying the pics doesn't help as neither perspective nor focal length are identical. Never underestimate the impact of distortion on photographs! I did it anyway - see below. I still believe the Tamiya Tomcat captures the look of the real aircraft MUCH better than its Revell counterpart. The radome length question is very interesting though. We need somebody to measure the length of a Tomcat radome - ideally the height of a radome sitting vertically on the ground.

 

tomc_overlay.jpg

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:o  :goodjob:

 

any chance you make the same mold for the Trumpy A-10 nose?  :whistle:

Sorry mate, that's not going to happen as I have no interest in an A-10 and thus don't have a kit to start with. Doesn't make much sense to mould an incorrectly shaped nose anyway, does it? :) 

 

By the way, if you want to correct the nose, check out this thread by master modeller Christian Gerard:

 

https://www.flugzeugforum.de/threads/ich-bau-ne-a-10a-in-1-32.11405/

 

It's in German but the pics show everything you need. Seems to be rather easy, just the windscreen is a tad more difficult to modify.

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Hi Starfighter, great match! can you do the same thing here please? many thanks

 

i1124714_AAA.jpg

 

i1124725_bbb.jpg

 

My feeling is that fwd fuselage's height is just too low beginning from the windscreen (just behind the last formation light... vertical red line)

Edited by Luca
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There you go, Luca. Better than the previous one but still doesnt work properly - again, the focal length and the slightly different perspective make a huge difference. Believe me, I did this kind o0f stuff for a living for 5 years (not with aircraft but with cars) and comparing photos of a model with similar photos of a rear car or aircraft will almost certainly mislead you. You need the model in your hand to properly compare it with a photo of the real deal.

 

tomc_overlay_2.jpg

 

I think the forward fuselage sides might be a tad too rounded indeed and the fuselage underside could be a tad too flat, but I'm still saying that you cannot judge properly by comparing these 2 pics. You need to take an assembled model into your hand and hold it exactly the same way as the photo of the real a/c.

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Thanks starfigher... great comparison picture! Yep the wide-angle is the problem of many photos... I have searched for two about the same perspective...

I have a Tamiya kit in my stash and I well know it... the conclusion I come to is that the F-14 in 1/32 is one of the most difficult kits to achieve, whether you're starting with Trumpeter or Tamiya or Revell the job you do is a lot.

Issues of the Trumpy kit are the Phoenix pallets, the turtleneck and the pedalboard rooms (unfortunately Eduard sized their PE for them)

 

Sorry mate, that's not going to happen as I have no interest in an A-10 and thus don't have a kit to start with. Doesn't make much sense to mould an incorrectly shaped nose anyway, does it?  :)

I meant a CORRECTLY shaped/mastered A-10 nose  :doh:

Edited by Luca
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The Trumpeter kit certainly has way more shape and proportion issues than this... windshield, air intakes, nose, just to name a few. 

 

Regarding the A-10 nose, check the link I have posted above, seems you only have to remove around 3mm to reshape the nose... 

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While it'd be better from directly head on, the photo below does show the radome bulkhead is far from circular, the curve on the bottom quadrant being much less than the sides, giving that flattened egg shape. It seems to me the radome itself only becomes circular from the tan colour line forward.

F-14A%20radome%20break%20cross%20section

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As already mentioned, to me, it looks like a slightly squashed circle. Then, dont forget that the frame around the bulkhead (i.e. where the radome meets the fuselage) is not vertical but inclined (the lower edge sits further aft than the top edge) which makes it look more even more egg shaped than it really is from this perspective. 

Edited by Starfighter
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As already mentioned, to me, it looks like a slightly squashed circle. Then, dont forget that the frame around the bulkhead (i.e. where the radome meets the fuselage) is not vertical but inclined (the lower edge sits further aft than the top edge) which makes it look more even more egg shaped than it really is from this perspective. 

 

It's not easy to pin down the shape due to all those factors.

 

This is probably the best side view I have, being an aerial shot on pretty much the same vertical plane as the radome break line, and the horizontal plane of the modex number. On the expanded version, the reflex curve where the fwd fuselage and radome join is visible.

If I can dig out my USN marking dimensions refs from some magazine or other, a reasonable estimation of the radome length should be possible.

Note how the upward curve on the underside commences after a line level with the front of the TCS pod

 

F-14%20nose%20profile%20F-14B%20in%20fli

Edited by Chek
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A good discussion guys, and I'm learning a lot here. I'm thinking if I can get a Tamiya canopy set, and maybe bulk out the underside of the radome, the Revell kit will look a bit better. Unless I get a real cheap Tamiya kit, I'm going with the revell kit as I have one in my stash.

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There's a seller on eBay that I got my Tamiya parts from who was very good Mike. If he hadn't got the parts needed in stock, he'd notify me when they came in.

 

IIRC it was around $15-20 a sprue. I just used the eBay search for 'Tamiya F-14 sprues', but as their 1/48 Tomcat has since come out, you might need to include your scale too.

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