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#286 Patrick HMD

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 02:30 PM

 Fisher Patterns ?  only hope

Wouldn't it be nice if Fisher did a PB4Y-2 conversion for the monogram kit.  That would make a lot of people happy.  I'm having pre-buyers remorse on that 41 inch wing span job.  Just don't have the room, amd not keen on wall hangers.


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#287 TimW

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:42 PM

Tail_gunner_aboard_US_Ferry_Command_C-87

I consider myself reasonably well versed in the Liberator but this tailgun config is strange to me. Can someone she'd a little light on this setup? It was in the movie Unbroken and it bothered me there too.

Nope, it's accurate--for 5th Air Force Liberators that went out to the Central Pacific.

 

They removed the tail and ball turrets for weight reasons.  The tail turret conversion has been well documented, but the ball turret, which was "replaced by a Scarff mounting" I've never seen.  I'm assuming it was a ring with guns firing down through the opening, sort of like the WWI mount but with the guns firing down and through the mounting, with some sort of shallow plexiglass dish set up.

 

There's a picture of one here.

 

https://ww2aircraft....y-turret.34925/

 

TimW



#288 acresearcher

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 07:29 PM

Okay....another opportunity to set the record straight.

 

First, the aircraft tail gun pictured above is NOT accurate for standard 5AF tail guns. It is a very early B-24, possibly even an LB-30 or a C-87 and in the U.S. This is immediately evident by the fact that it is a single .50 caliber. The 5AF retained the tail turret but had the ball turret removed. This is quickly recognized by the windows above the ball turret position as shown by the photos in the ww2 aircraft link. Those aircraft do NOT have ball turrets, but have been fitted with the twin hand-held .50 caliber guns. Any slight curvature you might see on the bottom of the aircraft was due to a plexiglas cover that was put over the opening,  They are also J-COs. The immediate recognition feature of the Consolidated nose-turreted aircraft is the square-ish upper rear corner on the bombardier position side glass. 

 

The 7AF retained the ball turret but replaced the tail turret with a series of TWIN .50 caliber tail guns. Some were hydraulically-assisted, many were hand-powered. I have no record whatsoever of any single .50 caliber guns in 7AF B-24 tails, although I do have a photo that smacks of a 20mm field mount. 

 

You will on rare occasion find a Hawaii Air Depot mod (HAD Mod) B-24 that has received BOTH the 5AF AND the 7AF mods. I'm pretty sure this was a screw-up at the mod center. I have several photos of one such aircraft in "Mess 1".

 

I would be extremely careful about using that ww2 link and its "information". A great deal of it is wrong. I went into a detailed explanation of all these theater/AF armament variations in "Consolidated Mess, Vol. 1", with many photos and drawings.  I will do the same with the glassnoses in Vol. 2. 

 

In the process of my researching Vol. 2 I have been going through pretty much every B-24 file and folder at the National Archives and have gathered a huge amount of data both for Vol. 2 and an eventual update of Vol. 1. I'm still not quite sure how to present the new information on the seemingly-endless armament experiments and suggested projects - up to and including mounting 75mm guns and larger in various positions. Research is a "*****" if done correctly, but it is exquisitely revealing. The first part of that statement is probably why so few authors really ever bother to do serious research.

 

If there are any questions about B-24 armament or configurations, please post them and I'll do my best to answer. I can't quite make out the serial number or the nose art for the box art on the upcoming "J" kit, so I'm not sure if it is configured correctly or not. If they had a copy of my book it SHOULD be right, but.....

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Alan Griffith

 

PS It is entirely conceivable that there were field mods early on initial B-24s in the Pacific featuring single .50 cal guns, but I've never seen a photo or read a report on one. I retain my serious doubts.


Edited by acresearcher, 26 March 2018 - 07:33 PM.

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#289 Martinnfb

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 07:54 PM

post #270 :)


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#290 Mark P

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 02:10 AM

Now will they be able to avoid the nasty seam through the turret that plagued the 1/48th Monogram B-24J?

 

Discuss....

 

Mark Proulx


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#291 Vandy 1 VX 4

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:05 AM

With all the slide mold technology these days I think they could

Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker :beer4:

 


#292 TimW

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 11:31 AM

Okay....another opportunity to set the record straight.

 

First, the aircraft tail gun pictured above is NOT accurate for standard 5AF tail guns. It is a very early B-24, possibly even an LB-30 or a C-87 and in the U.S. This is immediately evident by the fact that it is a single .50 caliber. The 5AF retained the tail turret but had the ball turret removed. This is quickly recognized by the windows above the ball turret position as shown by the photos in the ww2 aircraft link. Those aircraft do NOT have ball turrets, but have been fitted with the twin hand-held .50 caliber guns. Any slight curvature you might see on the bottom of the aircraft was due to a plexiglas cover that was put over the opening,  They are also J-COs. The immediate recognition feature of the Consolidated nose-turreted aircraft is the square-ish upper rear corner on the bombardier position side glass. 

 

The 7AF retained the ball turret but replaced the tail turret with a series of TWIN .50 caliber tail guns. Some were hydraulically-assisted, many were hand-powered. I have no record whatsoever of any single .50 caliber guns in 7AF B-24 tails, although I do have a photo that smacks of a 20mm field mount. 

 

You will on rare occasion find a Hawaii Air Depot mod (HAD Mod) B-24 that has received BOTH the 5AF AND the 7AF mods. I'm pretty sure this was a screw-up at the mod center. I have several photos of one such aircraft in "Mess 1".

 

I would be extremely careful about using that ww2 link and its "information". A great deal of it is wrong. I went into a detailed explanation of all these theater/AF armament variations in "Consolidated Mess, Vol. 1", with many photos and drawings.  I will do the same with the glassnoses in Vol. 2. 

 

In the process of my researching Vol. 2 I have been going through pretty much every B-24 file and folder at the National Archives and have gathered a huge amount of data both for Vol. 2 and an eventual update of Vol. 1. I'm still not quite sure how to present the new information on the seemingly-endless armament experiments and suggested projects - up to and including mounting 75mm guns and larger in various positions. Research is a "*****" if done correctly, but it is exquisitely revealing. The first part of that statement is probably why so few authors really ever bother to do serious research.

 

If there are any questions about B-24 armament or configurations, please post them and I'll do my best to answer. I can't quite make out the serial number or the nose art for the box art on the upcoming "J" kit, so I'm not sure if it is configured correctly or not. If they had a copy of my book it SHOULD be right, but.....

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Alan Griffith

 

PS It is entirely conceivable that there were field mods early on initial B-24s in the Pacific featuring single .50 cal guns, but I've never seen a photo or read a report on one. I retain my serious doubts.

Many thanks for the clarifications.  I'm always learning something new and the modifications to Pacific B-24s have been a major source of frustration for me!

 

Regards,

 

Tim W.



#293 acresearcher

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:35 PM

Tim,

 

It is always my pleasure to share what I've learned about the B-24. I've been researching this aircraft literally for years and continue to receive new information almost daily. As you might imagine, with an aircraft produced in the numbers, number of locations, modifications and eventual usage like the B-24, the amount of information to gather and sort is almost crushing in its volume and complexity. And the vast majority of that information is "just" on the AAF-used versions. To expand into the PB4Y-1 or British/Commonwealth aircraft would necessitate world-wide travel and the ability to remain healthy and sane until I reach about 150 years of age. Nor does this take into account the roughly 11 more books to which I've committed myself, including two more volumes on the B-24. 

 

At any rate, sometime in the next few weeks I hope to have an announcement that will more than satisfy your desire to figure out the panoply of variants and mods in the Pacific and CBI - and all the other nose-turreted variants. Well...not quite all. The F-7's are going to be covered in Volume 3, as will the C-87's, C-109's, etc.

 

Once again, please feel free to post any questions you might have about the B-24. Lord knows there are plenty of things to ask about!

 

Regards,

 

Alan Griffith


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#294 Martinnfb

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:40 AM

24back.gif


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#295 Smitty44

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:59 AM

24back.gif

 

My dad's brother in law was a B-24 pilot, and he told me this story of a tail gunner that had his Liberator shot in half and the tail section floated down to the earth as he watched the rest of his aircrew spin in. Fact or fiction, who knows.


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Charlie Company, 7th Engineers Suppt Bttn, 1st FSSG, !st Mar Div


#296 Maxim

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 03:09 AM

Okay....another opportunity to set the record straight.

 

First, the aircraft tail gun pictured above is NOT accurate for standard 5AF tail guns. It is a very early B-24, possibly even an LB-30 or a C-87 and in the U.S. This is immediately evident by the fact that it is a single .50 caliber. The 5AF retained the tail turret but had the ball turret removed. This is quickly recognized by the windows above the ball turret position as shown by the photos in the ww2 aircraft link. Those aircraft do NOT have ball turrets, but have been fitted with the twin hand-held .50 caliber guns. Any slight curvature you might see on the bottom of the aircraft was due to a plexiglas cover that was put over the opening,  They are also J-COs. The immediate recognition feature of the Consolidated nose-turreted aircraft is the square-ish upper rear corner on the bombardier position side glass. 

 

The 7AF retained the ball turret but replaced the tail turret with a series of TWIN .50 caliber tail guns. Some were hydraulically-assisted, many were hand-powered. I have no record whatsoever of any single .50 caliber guns in 7AF B-24 tails, although I do have a photo that smacks of a 20mm field mount. 

 

You will on rare occasion find a Hawaii Air Depot mod (HAD Mod) B-24 that has received BOTH the 5AF AND the 7AF mods. I'm pretty sure this was a screw-up at the mod center. I have several photos of one such aircraft in "Mess 1".

 

I would be extremely careful about using that ww2 link and its "information". A great deal of it is wrong. I went into a detailed explanation of all these theater/AF armament variations in "Consolidated Mess, Vol. 1", with many photos and drawings.  I will do the same with the glassnoses in Vol. 2. 

 

In the process of my researching Vol. 2 I have been going through pretty much every B-24 file and folder at the National Archives and have gathered a huge amount of data both for Vol. 2 and an eventual update of Vol. 1. I'm still not quite sure how to present the new information on the seemingly-endless armament experiments and suggested projects - up to and including mounting 75mm guns and larger in various positions. Research is a "*****" if done correctly, but it is exquisitely revealing. The first part of that statement is probably why so few authors really ever bother to do serious research.

 

If there are any questions about B-24 armament or configurations, please post them and I'll do my best to answer. I can't quite make out the serial number or the nose art for the box art on the upcoming "J" kit, so I'm not sure if it is configured correctly or not. If they had a copy of my book it SHOULD be right, but.....

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Alan Griffith

 

PS It is entirely conceivable that there were field mods early on initial B-24s in the Pacific featuring single .50 cal guns, but I've never seen a photo or read a report on one. I retain my serious doubts.

 

Hi Alan, so will the original book be republished or a totally new book is in the works? Your original book is great and a wonderful read.


Edited by Maxim, 28 March 2018 - 03:12 AM.


#297 Palm-tree

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 05:58 AM

My dad's brother in law was a B-24 pilot, and he told me this story of a tail gunner that had his Liberator shot in half and the tail section floated down to the earth as he watched the rest of his aircrew spin in. Fact or fiction, who knows.


Presumably the tail-gunner survived?

The story you recount is certainly plausible, there is a well known photograph of a B-24 that has had the tail section chopped off after an attack by a Me-262. Whether anyone survived from this aircraft is unknown.
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