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Virginia Marie using Trumpeter P-38 Lightning


dmthamade

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Bummer about the paint. I've always found it useful to fix these types of things as soon as possible, preferably straight away. That way you don't have time to dwell on it and the kit doesn't sit on the shelf of doom for long.

 

Hello BradG!! yeah, i didn't sit still or shelve it. At first i was going to walk away for a bit, but i stripped the build with....Tape!! Took about 2 hrs but it is done. I used green painters tape, took a whole bunch but it peeled almost all off. I did have to dig away with toothpicks and Vallejo thinner, but ready to paint.

 

REzYfl.jpg

yK82Wh.jpg

 

This shows how easy some of it was to strip, came off in big sheets!!

 

soX6oc.jpg

 

I've had to clean out the panel lines and rivets, tape didn't get all paint....lotsa fun...

 

Don, I know where you're at, I've had the same problem with the Vallejo primer and paint - both model air and metal color. One thing that cropped up that for some silly reason i never thought of...i was still cleaning the surface with isopropyl alcohol. Stopping that and putting the paint down in thin layers like you did cut way back on my issues. Not sure if it applies but thought id share as this was a recent discovery of mine. For the life of me I can't figure out how these magazine guys test the acrylics and say tape doesn't pull off the paint. Guess I'm limited in my painting skills for models lol

 

Hello themongoose!! I don't know where i went wrong!! Surface is clean, smooth, paint went on beautifully and looked great!! I'm certain the problem is in the priming stage. The tape stripped both coatings at the same time, primer coming off clean. Really want these paints to work, lots of colors available and convenient to use, doesn't mean anything unless the paint won't stick!! Build contines, i'm going to fall back to Tamiya spraybombs for primer and color coats, never ever let me down. Vallejo gets shelved, i think i'm going to hit a paint hulk with tamiya spraybomb primer, then retry the paints.

 

Don

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That is amazing.  I have never had Vallejo paint come up when I've put the primer down first and I've done some aggressive masking (See my Do-335 and the Spitfires).   

 

How long did you let the primer dry before going for the metal coat?  I think you said overnight.  A full day is much better in my experience and if I'm doing some serious masking I let it dry for two days.

 

Really sucks and sorry to see this happen to you.  Looked really good!!  Don't let this get you down. You CAN do it!

Keep on going!

 

Chris

Edited by CANicoll
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That is amazing.  I have never had Vallejo paint come up when I've put the primer down first and I've done some aggressive masking (See my Do-335 and the Spitfires).   

 

How long did you let the primer dry before going for the metal coat?  I think you said overnight.  A full day is much better in my experience and if I'm doing some serious masking I let it dry for two days.

 

Really sucks and sorry to see this happen to you.  Looked really good!!  Don't let this get you down. You CAN do it!

Keep on going!

 

Chris

 

I think it was a day, longer dry times wouldn't kill me, I can certainly try on a hulk. I used to have this problem with Model Master Acryl, fixed it by priming with Tamiya primer surfacer. Lots of things to think about....

 

Been there, done that Don, and I came to the same conclusion.

 

Acrylics are OK for top coats, but for a durable base, I use enamels or lacquers.

 

For instance:

 

 http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=70574&hl=

 

Really have to think of what to do, Chris is getting fine results with longer dry times, have to look at that. Otherwise, I get fine results with Tamiya primer with all other paints, may be my fallback.

 

Don

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Oh no!   Sorry to read about all the troubles Don.  A fantastic recovery none the less.  I've tried & tried acrylics and found out I just simply hate them!  I can't believe you already have it ready for paint again!    

Your P-38 to date has really been a real inspiration.  We simply don't see enough P-38's builds going on and I'm glad this one is heading toward a fast recovery.  

 

Reading back a few pages you were so happy the way the black primer settled down. I can't believe it didn't bite into the plastic a little more.  The one picture is worth a thousand words.  The entire wing came off with paint and primer in one peel!     

 

Troy

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Bummer!

 

I always have better luck with keying the surface and using some form of lacquer primer on problem models. As you said, Tamiya Fine is my go to for primers. It dries like silk, and usually gets a good bite into IM plastic, especially when given a good key with some 600 grit wet/dry

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Oh no!   Sorry to read about all the troubles Don.  A fantastic recovery none the less.  I've tried & tried acrylics and found out I just simply hate them!  I can't believe you already have it ready for paint again!    

Your P-38 to date has really been a real inspiration.  We simply don't see enough P-38's builds going on and I'm glad this one is heading toward a fast recovery.  

 

Reading back a few pages you were so happy the way the black primer settled down. I can't believe it didn't bite into the plastic a little more.  The one picture is worth a thousand words.  The entire wing came off with paint and primer in one peel!     

 

Troy

 

Hello Troy!! I've been using acrylics for decades, now. Can't use lacquers due to smell/hazards. The only time i've had problems is the primer part, have had that beat with tamiya stuff. 

 

Bummer!

 

I always have better luck with keying the surface and using some form of lacquer primer on problem models. As you said, Tamiya Fine is my go to for primers. It dries like silk, and usually gets a good bite into IM plastic, especially when given a good key with some 600 grit wet/dr

 

Hello Out2gtcha!! Yup!! Keep coming back to what i know works. I'm going to try two approaches, going to hit a sheet of styrene with Tamiya primer spray can on one half and Tamiya XF-19 on the other. I've also applied Model Master Acryl to tamiya color coats with no problem, want to see if the XF-19 will act as a primer as i have never had problems with the XF series pulling up from bare scuffed plastic. Going to hit these with the Metal coat after drying and see what happens. Really want these paints to work, the metal coats look great.

 

This AM i tried pulling the Vallejo black primer off the gear doors. I painted these a week(?) ago.

HXo2xA.jpg

 

Don

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Looks to me like you're doing great, Don.

 

I had the exact same experience with Testors acryls, both their regular paints and MM stuff.

 

Like everyone else, I've got a spray can of Tamiya primer handy to try with the new set of Vajello paints.

 

But I do recommend that you in order of take care of the tape-peeling problem, try the following:

  1. After cleaning off the old paint, as Brian said, I would lightly dull/roughen the areas with some 600 grit wet/dry.
  2. In this case, after priming, I would paint the darker anti-glare panels first with a flat enamel.
  3. Then, after they were dry, I would mask them with tape, and then finish the rest.

That way you eliminate the risk of messing up the silver color again with any sort of tape.

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Looks to me like you're doing great, Don.

 

I had the exact same experience with Testors acryls, both their regular paints and MM stuff.

 

Like everyone else, I've got a spray can of Tamiya primer handy to try with the new set of Vajello paints.

 

But I do recommend that you in order of take care of the tape-peeling problem, try the following:

  1. After cleaning off the old paint, as Brian said, I would lightly dull/roughen the areas with some 600 grit wet/dry.
  2. In this case, after priming, I would paint the darker anti-glare panels first with a flat enamel.
  3. Then, after they were dry, I would mask them with tape, and then finish the rest.

That way you eliminate the risk of messing up the silver color again with any sort of tape.

 

 

Hello Gigant!!

1. I've done this to all my builds, consistently, for a long time. Crucial step i never skip, just didn't help this time.

2. There is a lot of color painting i have to apply, with blue stripes, anti glare panels, wingtips, vertical tips, all with white outline stripes...Hoping i can do this on top 

     the metal color.

 

 

At least the bad paint came off easily...Could have been much worse if the surface of the model had been damaged...

 

Hello Alain!!

Yup!!!  At least that went well!! No damage to filler and no gouge marks. Going to take some time and sort out my approach to this paint and how it will take future masking and color coats.

 

Don

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I use Vallejo a lot, however, their primer is garbage. You can only consider it as a paint. Use something more aggressive, I love Badger's Stynilrez, its still water based acrylic, but it sticks on everything, and I use Montex masks and full tack Tamiya tape. I have never had any paint lift with it under. I have used it with Vallejo, AMMO, and Tamiya paints, they all love it. It dries semi-smooth sheen, not flat, makes a great base for metal colors and self levels. I am always amazed when I spray a puddle, thinking i need to go back and sand it out, and when dry, it leveled out and I lost no detail. This stuff is my favorite. The only time I ever had adhesion problems was when I experimented with using Tamiya aluminum instead of primer going on some Youtube modeller's advice...never again. 

 

My personal opinion.....Throw that Vallejo primer away! (their gloss black primer for metal color should be treated as a paint sprayed over a primer) If you are not spraying lacquers, use stynilrez. If anything else, use Mr Surfacer.

 

 

Here is my build using Stynilrez, Vallejo Metal Color, Montex Masks, Tamiya Tape. I never had any issues with lifting, and the Hasegawa plastic was very smooth. 

 

Y6IEi68.jpg

 

l8tzNRV.jpg

 

yy7Lkky.jpg

Edited by 1to1scale
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I use Vallejo a lot, however, their primer is garbage. You can only consider it as a paint. Use something more aggressive, I love Badger's Stynilrez, its still water based acrylic, but it sticks on everything, and I use Montex masks and full tack Tamiya tape. I have never had any paint lift with it under. I have used it with Vallejo, AMMO, and Tamiya paints, they all love it. It dries semi-smooth sheen, not flat, makes a great base for metal colors and self levels. I am always amazed when I spray a puddle, thinking i need to go back and sand it out, and when dry, it leveled out and I lost no detail. This stuff is my favorite. The only time I ever had adhesion problems was when I experimented with using Tamiya aluminum instead of primer going on some Youtube modeller's advice...never again. 

 

My personal opinion.....Throw that Vallejo primer away! (their gloss black primer for metal color should be treated as a paint sprayed over a primer) If you are not spraying lacquers, use stynilrez. If anything else, use Mr Surfacer.

 

 

Here is my build using Stynilrez, Vallejo Metal Color, Montex Masks, Tamiya Tape. I never had any issues with lifting, and the Hasegawa plastic was very smooth. 

 

Hello 1to1scale!! I've heard good things about Stynilrez, even had bottle in my hands this past weekend. Maybe I should have bought....As far as the Vallejo primer, no good success, so it gets shelved. The build looks great!! Did you apply the metallic as a base for chipping?

 

Don

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Hello 1to1scale!! I've heard good things about Stynilrez, even had bottle in my hands this past weekend. Maybe I should have bought....As far as the Vallejo primer, no good success, so it gets shelved. The build looks great!! Did you apply the metallic as a base for chipping?

 

Don

Exactly, I sprayed chipping medium thinned 50% with Vallejo thinner, it came out glass smooth and worked perfectly. 

 

The only warning I have about the Stynilrez, it is very sensitive to freezing, so getting it shipped in the winter is problematic. Badger even released a warning about this a few months ago. Best bet is to buy it in a store. to test and see if its good, pour some in a cup when you first get the bottle (shake to mix first), it should be smooth and milk like consistency, it should not be thick or clumpy, thats a sign of freezing (I heard Vallejo and other water, non alcohol, based paint has the same issue). I never thin mine, its perfect. I bought a three bottle set, white, gray, black. I mostly used black, white for under masks, they all cover very well. 

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