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HK B-17...D??? 22/9 open door policy

scratchbuild hk models B-17 metal rivets

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#16 brahman104

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 11:41 AM

So a bit more progress. 

 

I've roughly blocked in the two rear fuselage halves ready for covering with filler then a lot of sanding to perfect the shape. I'm thinking I might have to put in locating dowels so I can properly clamp the two together when sanding so they as close as I can make them to mirror images. Here's where they're at so far...

 

IMG_4252_zpsa96d6d5b.jpg

 

Next I began to work out the proper profile for the front end. Here's where it starts getting tricky and open to a lot of interpretation. I still believe HK's original is a little off in shape, especially around the bottom of the windscreen area as the handful of decent pics of this part show a considerably flatter cross section than the rest of the circular fuselage. Since it's almost impossible to dimension of photos with any accuracy, I made a compromise by comparing the dimensions of the Academy 1/72 B-17C, the Caruna drawings, the good old monogram classic and finally back to the HK base to blend it all in. Here's what I've settled on....

 

IMG_4255_zpsb965a99d.jpg

 

And when you put the fuse up against it...

 

IMG_4251_zpsb1a98be9.jpg

 

Pretty rough, but I think it will work. The other part that needs addressing is the height of the windscreen, which I feel is too short on the model which again distorts the overall look of the model. When I calculated the dimensions on the various sources I had, they seemed to agree that it should be around 2mm taller, which I think will make a big difference visually...

 

Sorry, this is a rubbish photo, but you might be able to see how the taller windscreen and shorter cross section come together in relation to the nose of the G.

 

IMG_4253_zps23bcea30.jpg

 

And up the front...

 

IMG_4254_zpsc6795f8d.jpg

 

And here's essentially what it will look like overall, hopefully...

 

IMG_4256_zpsff89fd95.jpg

 

Also, I realised that I was a little overzealous initially with cutting the fuselage and had to reattach part of the fuselage just forward of the wing. No worry, I'm going to redo all the surface detail anyway and I took about 10mm out of the cockpit coaming section as it sits further back behind the engines. While I was in a cutting mood I also made room for the longer cockpit windows on each side....

 

IMG_4249_zps4f2c6a5c.jpg

 

That's all for now. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I should have the nose and rear fuselage master sections pretty close to being ready to vac form.

 

Stay tuned...

 

Craig


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#17 airscale

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 01:46 PM

brilliant!

 

really ambitious and superb execution Craig

 

I love seeing kits converted like this, it challenges you and allows for so much more imagination & creativity than building OOB - I really like what you are doing..

 

I must admit as soon as I first saw the HK B17 I thought hmm theres a Boeing 307 I could try with that...

 

more please :popcorn: :popcorn:

 

Peter


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#18 zak

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 04:53 PM

Wow seriously good stuff, great subject and an immense amount of skill on show here. Taking notes...
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On the bench: 1/32 Tbm avenger
On the back burner: 1/35 mi-24
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#19 Loic

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:24 PM

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


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Cheers!________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In the work :   Dornier Do 335   /   A-1H/J Skyraider   /   Mirage F1 (Scratchbuild)  /  Mirage IIIC

Completed builds :   Hawker Tempest (kitbash)   /   Nakajima B5N Kate (Scratchbuild)   /   Spitfire Mk I

Master pattern work:   DB-603 Engine    /   F4U-1 Corsair engine bay 


#20 brahman104

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 08:52 PM

brilliant!

 

really ambitious and superb execution Craig

 

I love seeing kits converted like this, it challenges you and allows for so much more imagination & creativity than building OOB - I really like what you are doing..

 

I must admit as soon as I first saw the HK B17 I thought hmm theres a Boeing 307 I could try with that...

 

more please :popcorn: :popcorn:

 

Peter

Thank you kindly Peter, I must say I'm drawing a lot of inspiration and knowledge from your Tigercat build! A 307 would be pretty awesome to see I must say. I am really enjoying this, but this is the "easy" part so far :)


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#21 brahman104

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 08:54 PM

Wow seriously good stuff, great subject and an immense amount of skill on show here. Taking notes...

Thanks Zac, mate that Avenger build is off tap! I hardly think you need to be taking notes from an amateur like me :) I'm planning on using the archer rivets for the original kit parts, then I have a plan for the vac pieces........



#22 tomprobert

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 09:49 PM

This is fantastic! 

 

I must admire your bravery in cutting up such an expensive kit, but it seems it's in very capable hands  :)

 

The flightdeck was moved forward on the B-17E onwards due to the new rear fuselage. There was a lot more weight in it than in the preceding models, and the centre of gravity was distinctly tail-heavy. Therefore the nose was lengthened and the cockpit moved forward and this went a long way to solving the problem. 

 

When it comes to painting the interior, the majority will be natural metal, but you'll likely find some olive-greenish padding in the radio room, cockpit area and nose section although this was often removed, especially in those Forts that saw combat.

 

I'm sure I'm teaching granny to suck eggs here though...

 

I've a feeling I'm going to enjoy this build  :popcorn:

 

Tom (who is also rather fond of Boeing's finest)


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#23 brahman104

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:10 PM

Hi Tom, 

 

  Thanks for the background info on the fuselage; it does make perfect sense now that I think about it. Also, I'm more than happy for you to chime in with any info or comments, especially from someone as knowledgable as yourself! 

 

  Totally agree about the interior colours too, from what I've seen of the early forts it makes sense. I've also gone through the movie "Air Force" and got a whole heap of screen captures especially for the rear fuselage. One thing I noticed was that bird had a door/bulkhead just aft of the rear gunners windows. I can't seem to find any more info on that as all the other factory pics and the few I've seen from the swoose restoration seem to show it without. I'm kind of tempted to put it in as it will save an immense amount of structural work down the back and I'd like to get it finished sometime this century :). But if yourself or anyone else has some better info than I'm certainly open to suggestions!

 

Thanks again mate

 

Craig

 

p.s. not really sure what particular aircraft I'm going to depict yet. I love the look of the natural metal ones just before the war,  but I've also seen a few really rough looking ones that have almost what appears to be a black overall on the upper surfaces with much of it flaking off. I guess these must have been the few that survived to make it back to Australia after the fall of the Philippines and Java. 


Edited by brahman104, 31 January 2015 - 10:14 PM.


#24 Radders

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:12 PM

Great project! I look forward to seeing a lot more! :)

 

 


 

I must admit as soon as I first saw the HK B17 I thought hmm theres a Boeing 307 I could try with that...

 

 

 

Peter

 

I'm going to get a petition going Peter... this is a must! :D


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#25 MostlyRacers

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:16 PM

brilliant!



I must admit as soon as I first saw the HK B17 I thought hmm theres a Boeing 307 I could try with that...



Peter

We're soulmates here Peter !

Lovely work on this conversion Craig :popcorn:

Hubert

Edited by MostlyRacers, 31 January 2015 - 10:17 PM.


#26 brahman104

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:18 PM

Great project! I look forward to seeing a lot more! :)

 

 

 

I'm going to get a petition going Peter... this is a must! :D

 

 

And I imagine that Peter would be one of the few people with the skill to pull it off. I think these kits are a good canvas to do some really great things with, providing you're okay with cutting up a rather expensive kit.......  :whistle:



#27 richdlc

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 09:45 AM

looks great, good luck!


F4U-4 Corsair:   F4U-4 Corsair  B-17G Fortress:  http://forum.largesc...showtopic=47228  A-1H Skyraider:  http://forum.largesc...showtopic=53052

 

Current Project, 1/18 SBD-5 Dauntless:  http://forum.largesc...showtopic=53741

 


#28 brahman104

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:13 AM

Little more progress to wrap up the weekend.

 

Pretty much the same as the rear, I started to rough out then refine the shape for the nose patterns. With this and the rear ones, I inserted two short pieces of brass rod into each so as to align and hold them together while doing the final sanding to make sure they are contoured correctly in relation to each other.

 

The nose profile takes into account where it flattens out around the windshield area and I've included a pic with the kit part so you can see the difference. The kit part is actually about 4mm "taller" than the new version so I think this will work and at the same time, will take that large gap out at the top of the instrument panel that people have talked about.

 

Here's the pics..

 

IMG_4262_zps4f550614.jpg

 

IMG_4263_zpsc9f5168a.jpg

 

IMG_4264_zpsda2072fe.jpg

 

IMG_4261_zps7f7c07a8.jpg

 

IMG_4268_zpsacb694ba.jpg

 

With the last one, the kit part is actually shorter, so the height comparison is a little distorted in the photo, but when the are at the same level, the difference is obvious.

 

I also removed the extra kit "skin" from the rear of the radio room, so this is how it will fit in.

 

IMG_4266_zps840e2de2.jpg

 

Lastly, on the left side of the fuselage I had to move the forward entry door closer to the wing as it moves back in line with the cockpit bulkhead....

 

IMG_4258_zpsd1c1c510.jpg

 

IMG_4259_zps1d0a969d.jpg

 

IMG_4265_zpse8ec42aa.jpg

 

Now comes much sanding and filling to get the masters as smooth as possible for the vac forming, building a vac box that can handle the rear fuse and filling the few larger gaps in the kit fuselage as a result of my rather "agricultural" modifications

 

Got to go back to work now.... boooooo!

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Craig


Edited by brahman104, 01 February 2015 - 11:17 AM.

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#29 Cees Broere

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:29 AM

Amazing and addictive to read.
Cheers
Cees
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#30 tomprobert

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 03:39 PM

Hi Tom, 

 

  Thanks for the background info on the fuselage; it does make perfect sense now that I think about it. Also, I'm more than happy for you to chime in with any info or comments, especially from someone as knowledgable as yourself! 

 

  Totally agree about the interior colours too, from what I've seen of the early forts it makes sense. I've also gone through the movie "Air Force" and got a whole heap of screen captures especially for the rear fuselage. One thing I noticed was that bird had a door/bulkhead just aft of the rear gunners windows. I can't seem to find any more info on that as all the other factory pics and the few I've seen from the swoose restoration seem to show it without. I'm kind of tempted to put it in as it will save an immense amount of structural work down the back and I'd like to get it finished sometime this century :). But if yourself or anyone else has some better info than I'm certainly open to suggestions!

 

Thanks again mate

 

Craig

 

p.s. not really sure what particular aircraft I'm going to depict yet. I love the look of the natural metal ones just before the war,  but I've also seen a few really rough looking ones that have almost what appears to be a black overall on the upper surfaces with much of it flaking off. I guess these must have been the few that survived to make it back to Australia after the fall of the Philippines and Java. 

 

Hi Craig,

 

The bulkhead you refer to above was doorless in all references I have seen - this link below takes you to a great B-17C cutaway (an earlier model, but in all sense and purposes identical to the D model internally) and you can see it just aft of the waist gunners' position:

 

http://img834.images...yingfortres.jpg

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that there was sometimes amour plate fitted to this bulkhead as protection from rear attacks. I've been through many of my references and can't find it - I may well have dreamt it so don't quote me on that! Others may well be able to shed some light?

 

Regarding the dark paint schemes you mention - many of the early Forts were involved in 'war games' with the Navy shortly before the Pearl Harbor attacks and were painted in differing experimental schemes. They were temporary, water-based paints and didn't last too long - hence the heavily weathered images you mention. These could be something connected to those war games.

 

However, you know you want to do an RAF Fortress I (which I believe were actually B-17Cs but what the heck!) with azure blue undersides...

 

Tom

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention how brilliant that new nose looks  :)


Edited by tomprobert, 01 February 2015 - 03:41 PM.

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