Texas Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 HI Sure is looking good. Can't wait to see how it all turns out. Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hi Guys, Good to hear from all of you and as always your comments and ideas are always welcome. This hole thing about the prop has become quite a hairball. It seems, at least to me, that the more you look at the Mustang, the more complex it becomes. I'm beginning to believe that's what has kept many manufacturers away from it. I've looked at Bently's Drawings, a rudimentary NAAE general layout drawing, scoured numerous photographs, looked on the internet and still remain unsure about any number of things that address the Mustang. Having said all this, what is the solution to the prop issue? I dont know. Im going to try and pour a casting and go from there. Charles brings up a good point. In the photo supplied by Rad, The LE and TE of the cuff appear to remain parallel over their length. Im convinced however that the bottom of the LE protrudes forward. It would also appear that the TE comes forward in order to remain parallel with the leading edge giving the prop and cuff a "cranked" appearance. I have seen this in other photos and to be honest Im unsure which is correct. It's good to hear from you guys. Many thanks...hope everyone is well. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourist Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 You're right, the bottom of the cuff protrudes forward just not as much as on most kit's prop (Dragon, Tamiya, Trumpeter), and it only shows on certain photos depending on the angle of the picture. A good example can be seen at the following link. Ultracast makes the best prop I've seen. If you look at the second photo you can see it next to a (wrong) Tamiya prop. The cuff looks straight on the pic but if you were to slightly turn the prop to the left you'd see the bottom of the cuff going a bit forward. http://www.ultracast.ca/products/48/081/default.htm What you did looks good to me, personally I would leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourist Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 BTW this could be helpful that's probably the best online P-51D walkaround: http://master194.com/photo_avion/mustang/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafju Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 BTW this could be helpful that's probably the best online P-51D walkaround: http://master194.com/photo_avion/mustang/index.htm some other of interest: http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/p-51/p-51.shtml http://www.ffsmc.com/modules.php?name=Copp...s&album=127 (registration needed) High quality pictures very good close up! and also through ARC walkarounds etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 All, As you can see, Ive removed the prop posts. I dont want to mislead anyone about how to correct or modify existing components into a shape which is inaccurate. Initially, they were close but, new information and pics found over at P51SIG and the posts found here, identify a discrepency in the cuff shape; mostly in cuff cord thickness and general shape. The cuffs I manufactured are overly thick and improperly shaped. From what I can see, the cuff, based on a straight on look, does not taper from top to bottom. Moreover, it remains quite thin and hugs the prop itself until it reaches a point very close to the spinner or bottom of the prop. At that point it "flares" to accomodate the prop shaft. A new fix is in the works using the Hasegawa prop as a baseline. Incidentally, the Hasegawa prop, although much maligned, even by me, is darn near right in thickness and overall shape. Available aftermarket parts in 48th scale arent close and almost "cartoonish" in appearance, especially in the thickness area. There are no available 32nd offerings, of which I am aware, with the the exception of Jerry Rutmans "B" prop. The Mustang prop is very thin over its entire length with the exception of the cuff and the flare at cuff's end. Some versions of the Hamilton standard also have a small "fence" at the base of the cuff, for what reason I have no idea, which extends forward and follows the eliptical shape of the cuff. Some also have a deicing orifice at the cuff base, although, I must admit, I am unable to see it. I would suggest to those interested, that you visit the P51SIG Web site and have a look at the pics posted there. They are the best reference photos Ive seen, and show to great detail the cuff section of the prop. The pics posted here by Rad are also of great quality and what started me on this corrective action. Im working on it. Hopefully, this time it will be right. Be well all...cheers Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourist Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Geoff, the small "fence" on bottom of some H.S. cuffs is the de-icing device. "Orifice" is misleading. Glad you feel better about the Hase prop (I knew I wasn't crazy). I tend to disagree about 1/48 Ultracast but who cares, we're talking 1/32 here. I can't wait to see more pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Aylmer Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hi You sure like carving things up, maybe you and Chris from Germany should hook up. Its this kind of attention to detail that really inspires. Thaks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Well Geoff, it looks like your well and truely 'back on line' again with this Mustang build - nice to see you revisit this aircraft. I have learned many new things already through your build, so I am grateful. As for transferring shapes onto aluminium sheet, without too much wastage, I tend to make a lot of use of plain, and tracing, paper to get the form correct before I even touch metal. I Then (if the shape is symmetrical) either fold the paper (either type) in half, and cut the shape out (providing symmetry), or burnish the pencil tracing onto the metal, use pin pricks through the tracing onto the metal, or simply draw around the shape onto the metal (this gives you a fraction oversize copy to work with - useful, if, like me, you screw it up frequently! ). Once more Geoff, an inspiring build which I shall follow with much enjoyment. Best regards Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Evening All, Good to see your comments. As I noted in my last post, I removed the prop shots because I thought, first and foremost, that what I had done, while close, remained incorrect. Hence, the removal. I have been however working on a repair. I did away with the aluminum and went to .005 ABS card stock. It's barely thicker than paper and tough to work with in that it tends to disolve and form sink holes where the solvent hits it. The cuffs are made in one piece of folded card stock from a pattern. I'll post the pattern later with dimensions should anyone be interested in trying this. The cuff pattern was traced and cut from the stock, intentionally oversize to leave room for fitting. Each blade was then sanded only where the cuff line ends, to somewhat thin this area, farthest from the base of the prop. The idea is to keep the entire thing thin. The cuff hugs the prop tightly until it gets to the bottom then flares to accomodate the prop shaft. It does not come down to the end of the cuff on an angle. There is also a small (think tiny) fence at the base of the cuff which was for deicing. Who knew? There are pics posted over on the P51 SIG that are super clear and show the fence readily. I didnt try to replicate it. Have a look at the following at let me know your opinions... Geoff This shot is looking at the top face. It has a most peculiar "cranked" look to it. In reality, its the leading edge of the cuff that creates this illusion. I am confident this is correct as is the shape of the blade and cuff. Front and back surfaces are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Looking at the prop from the front...think thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Along with the new props comes a new spinner. The Dragon spinner outdistances the Hasegawa prop in this category. Its shape is far truer. The difficulty with the Dragon prop is that its diameter is smaller than the Hasegawa spinner making it too small to use with the Hasegawa front end. To over come the problem each part was vacuformed using .020 " card stock. Excess material was trimmed off, edges sanded, and both pieces were then vacuformed again over the the original draw. The Dragon orignal also remained in place during all this to hold the shape. Vacfomed plactic can be pretty hot and will deform the master if care isnt used. In the instance, the two vacfomed pieces which cover the spinner cone, partially fused to each other. Here is a comparison of the two spinners. The Hasegawa spinner is too fat with far too much radius. The nose of the spinner is also overly blunt. The Dragon spinner, according to my eyes, is pretty much spot on. sorry about the pic, it seems a bit distorted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 The vacuformed Dragon spinner. The dimples in the backing plate are the points where the prop exits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 plate and nose cone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 the component parts PS: I didnt like the way this turned out so I reworked/reshaped the Hasegawa part. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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