CharlesMetz Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 With a little work, one is just screaming out to be put to use with one of those PM/Hasegawa G-4 kits in the stash... Darin, Your photo appears to show a '109 F -- which can be converted from a G-4, of course, but that PM/Hasegawa kit is by no means a "drop fit" on the Ju 88. As far as I know, no Mistel used a Bf 109 G as its upper component. Pages 111 and 112 of Robert Forsyth's splendid Mistel: German Composite Aircraft and Operations 1942-1945 (Classic Publications, 2001) do show four photos of a Mistel S1 with an upper aircraft (SK+ML) that the captions claim to be a '109 G. However, that upper aircraft is unlike any other '109 I've ever seen: although it does have the two small airscoops on each side of its nose that were characteristic of Gs, it also clearly has the lower-quarter windscreen windows, shallow oil-cooler fairing and skinny propellers of an F. Therefore, building even that unique Mistel would require almost all of the conversion work needed to make a '109 F from the G-4 kit. I have a better idea: Let's get Hasegawa to release that 1/32-scale '109 F kit we all know they've been keeping hidden away. Charles Metz Comments added after looking through Robert Forsyth's book more carefully: (1) Two other '109 components with nose scoops can be seen in small, blurry photos on pages 95 and 125 of Mr. Forsyth's book. (2) A fold-out multi-view drawing between pages 160 and 161 that shows a '109 with the strange combination of F and G characteristics that I described in the body of my posting above is entitled "Mistel combinations based upon the Ju 88 A-4 and modified Bf 109 F possibly with DB 605 engine." This seems to imply that although the two upper aircraft in question were, in fact, '109 Fs, they had had nose scoops added to cool their larger engines — which is why '109 Gs had those scoops, by the way. This makes sense ... but why, then, do the photo captions on pages 111 and 112 refer to a '109 G? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 There's always the F kit from 21st Century or, if you're less fussy, the old Revell job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 (2) A fold-out multi-view drawing between pages 160 and 161 that shows a '109 with the strange combination of F and G characteristics that I described in the body of my posting above is entitled "Mistel combinations based upon the Ju 88 A-4 and modified Bf 109 F possibly with DB 605 engine." This seems to imply that although the two upper aircraft in question were, in fact, '109 Fs, they had had nose scoops added to cool their larger engines — which is why '109 Gs had those scoops, by the way. This makes sense ... but why, then, do the photo captions on pages 111 and 112 refer to a '109 G? Not to be pedantic about this, and I do not want to hijack the thread, but those scoops have nothing to do with larger engines. The were there simply to cool the spark plug cables/connections, which are right above the exhausts. The scoop leads to a long rectangular box on the inside of the cowl, right above the exhausts. That long rectangular box has evenly spaced slits in it that vent the cool air drawn by the scoops over the spark plugs. The cowl of a G2/G4 can be retrofitted to an F without any need for modifications, hence the scoops. That 109 is an F4. As for the kit itself, it is a beauty. It looks very similar in breakdown to the 1/48 Dragon Ju88 (also reboxed by Revell). That means that it may eventually be reboxed as any A or a C, D, S, P, G and even 188. I, for one, can't wait to get an A4. HTH Radu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesMetz Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Radu, You were a bit pedantic there ... but so was I. Although I had known that the scoops in question were introduced for spark-plug cooling, I've always assumed — and in fact still believe — that this need was caused by the switch from the F-series' DB 601 to the G-series' DB 605. I've based this belief on a statement by Prien and Rodeike on page 59 of their book Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G & K Series: "Experience with the pre-production series resulted in the addition of two small air intakes on each side of the engine cowling, which served to provide cooling air for the spark plugs and exhausts." Because the pre-production (G-0) aircraft mentioned there were the first '109s to use DB 605 engines, I would argue that the switch to the large engine seems to have made better spark-plug cooling necessary. (Prien and Rodeike state on page 57 that "the first three G-series machines were built as Bf 109 G-0 at Messerschmitt's Regensburg plant ... and ... were powered by the DB 601E," but they indicate also that at least six preproduction machines existed.) Charles Metz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-M Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Umm...I am no expert on this aircraft, but what if someone was to see a glaring error in the pics provided, is he/she not allowed to state that? Why can't we pick it apart, early shots or not, this is a modelling forum for discussion. Are we to just look and say "Sweet...wow that is awesome"??? If there are issues with it that can be seen from these photo's, wouldn't you want Revell to hear about it, so they can make the fixes, or are you happy with errors in a kit? Thanks for sharing these by the way, and I am not slamming you for this, but I think we should be able to discuss issues with the kit, if there are issues with it, even if it's in an early stage. Cheers Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loic Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi Brad, I think you are right but from what I see, I really do not see any major issue with this kit. Also, it is not quite easy to spot the tiny details from the pics. On the "not so good" side, I myself would have loved to have the engines and some bomb loads included but it is not because the pics do not show any that there wont be (OK, it is a hint). Even if they do not come with the kit, I consider this as minor issue compared to all the joy this kit brings me. I honnestly, and from the deepest of both my heart and my knowledge think this looks like a great kit. This said, I am no expert on Ju88. Brad, did you spot something on your side? Cheers, Loic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-M Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi Loic, No I didn't spot anything wrong, I am not an expert in this aircraft; however I think that others that are knowledgable on the aircraft should be able to discuss this model. I think the pics shown are detailed enough to show faults if there were any. I am not saying that we slam the kit, but I am saying that we should be allowed to discuss faults as they present themselves. I like to know issues with kits, so I can be informed about them. This helps me decide if I want to purchase the model, and fix the issues, or not buy it all if I don't think I can fix it. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaVenom Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 The cockpit looks to have a good amount of detail looking at those photo's. If anyone from Revell reads this then how about some pilot figures too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotary Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 The cockpit looks to have a good amount of detail looking at those photo's. If anyone from Revell reads this then how about some pilot figures too? i agree---the cockpit looks---to my tired old eyes---better than good---it looks exquisite o.o.b. take another look at that tailwheel guys--the super hub detail, the manufacturers name on the tyre---and this is a tailwheel!!!!! this kit looks like a dream come true to me---if it is anything like the dragon the fit will be problematical but i doubt we ca'nt live with that. on the 'other' variants front which is exercising a lot of you guys---well it's gonna be a while 'aint it! in the meantime this has got to be a very good omen for luftwaffe fans ----new cutting edge moulds of J.U.88---M.E.110----M.E.109 just let me get my grubbies on them. dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaVenom Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 i agree---the cockpit looks---to my tired old eyes---better than good---it looks exquisite o.o.b. take another look at that tailwheel guys--the super hub detail, the manufacturers name on the tyre---and this is a tailwheel!!!!! this kit looks like a dream come true to me---if it is anything like the dragon the fit will be problematical but i doubt we ca'nt live with that. on the 'other' variants front which is exercising a lot of you guys---well it's gonna be a while 'aint it! in the meantime this has got to be a very good omen for luftwaffe fans ----new cutting edge moulds of J.U.88---M.E.110----M.E.109 just let me get my grubbies on them. dave. I'm always afraid to use words like "excellent" or "exquisite" etc just in case I'm disappointed in the kit when I get it for various reasons, but it does look like Revell's done a fine job on the cockpit and indeed the rest of the kit. I hadn't noticed the manufacturers name on the tailwheel until you pointed it out too.....great stuff! I'm just a bit cautious because of one or two disappointments in the past I suppose. It's hard to make out from those pics but I wonder what the surface detail will be like? If the panel and rivet detail is anything like their 1/32 Hunter then it should be a beauty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bellis Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Charles, Thanks for the info. Yes, I was aware that the '109 in the image is/was an F. I'd remove the G-4 kit's cowl scoops without regaurd to the debate over them. I'd also swap out the tail wheel and leg, as well as do a little rescribing and filling on the fuselage access hatches to more closely represent the F's configuration. That's about it. If anyone actually sees it in person and happens to know what they're looking at, the "HOLY CRAP!" factor will likely negate any potential negative reactions to a few "too small to care about them" details that I happen to botch. Seriously though, I do appreciate you taking the time to pass along the information. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrundt Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Of course you could use one of hasegawa's Fw-190's for a 32nd Mistel config. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotary Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I'm always afraid to use words like "excellent" or "exquisite" etc just in case I'm disappointed in the kit when I get it for various reasons, but it does look like Revell's done a fine job on the cockpit and indeed the rest of the kit. I hadn't noticed the manufacturers name on the tailwheel until you pointed it out too.....great stuff! I'm just a bit cautious because of one or two disappointments in the past I suppose. It's hard to make out from those pics but I wonder what the surface detail will be like? If the panel and rivet detail is anything like their 1/32 Hunter then it should be a beauty! although i agree with you re. overuse of superlatives i did actually say ' exquisite o. o. b. '-----the pics make me feel-----for what it's worth-----that those details ---out the box---look exquisite by any kit standard. i feel we're going to like this one. cheers, dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro32 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 You guys are probably familiar with this resource: Ju88 resource An excellent source of high-res photos and history about the particular aircraft they're restoring or are involved with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bellis Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Of course you could use one of hasegawa's Fw-190's for a 32nd Mistel config. Jeff Not really. The Mistel 1 used a Bf 109F and a modified Ju 88A. The Mistel 2, 3 and 4 configurations used Fw 190s and Ju 88Gs with several variations on the subtypes involved. To make this Revell Ju 88A into a Ju 88G of any subtype would be a monumental undertaking. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now