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A-10B Desert Storm: 2/28 Taking a break

A-10 N/AW Desert Storm Trumpeter A-10B

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#1 EmperorKai

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 06:23 PM

Well, it's got 2 engines, 2 peeps, 2 tails and I've been wanting to do this for too long :)

IMG_7954_500_zps25d1e580.jpg

I know there was only one that was converted for testing and it never went any farther than that, but I've always wanted to do one up as though it was used in Desert Storm. With that in mind, I have an F-15E kit that was started and abandoned by a friend, who gifted it to me that has parts that will lend itself to this project.

IMG_7972_500_zpsf6cbc787.jpg
The original release of the Tamiya F-15E

IMG_7974_500_zps63e946fb.jpg
Alot of parts...

IMG_7962_500_zps2fc15e5e.jpg
Some of the aftermarket. Will also have Eduard armament set and exterior details. Would like to include the Sierra Hotel correction set, but money is a little tight right now so I'll have to stick with what I've built up in the stash for now.

IMG_7968_500_zps4ad1622e.jpg
Mainly for the TER's

IMG_7966_500_zps13e9a425.jpg
GBU-12's

Target for today...
a-10b_04_500_zps2b25f35c.jpg

fiktnumo_400clean_zps755b61cd.jpg

I know this has been done several times before (Andre Dorian did a beautiful one among others), but with limited operational use, I feel compelled to color outside of the lines a bit on this one. Not going to obsess over the details too much on this one- Just wanna have fun :)

Thanks for looking!

Kai


Edited by EmperorKai, 01 March 2015 - 06:39 PM.

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#2 marauderdriver

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 06:51 PM

And I'm in the Front Row :popcorn:  :popcorn: :popcorn:  :popcorn:  

 

 

watch'in you :piliot:

 

jack


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bddb4135-4c76-4763-a001-43cedb78b2fa.jpgGonna get back to this ...One of These Days


#3 EmperorKai

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 12:05 AM

A little follow-up on some of the aftermarket I'll be using

 

IMG_7951_500_zps97b695b3.jpg

I don't have a huge problem with the Trumpeter tires, but I still generally try to replace the vinyl kit tires whenever I can.  In this case, True Details offers an economical drop-in set.

 

IMG_7946_500_zps21e35694.jpg

The True Details tires seem to have a higher profile than the kit tires.  The details on the rims are also nicer.

 

IMG_7947_500_zps00c2321c.jpg

Unfortunately, the circumferential tread is a disappointment as the grooves are too close together.  The rims themselves should also be a little deeper.  The tread on the kit tires are closer to the real thing though the profile is too "squarish"  and the grooves are very shallow.

 

a-10_44_of_48_500_zps6a0dcf45.jpg

An A-10 main wheel for comparison.

 

IMG_7986_500_zps4a66002d.jpg

The Verlinden A-10 N/AW cockpit set has been around for awhile.  Surprisingly, I had a hard time finding a good in-depth review into what is actually contained in the kit.  At a glimpse, it's a complete cockpit set with details that extend into the canopy glass.  In case it might be helpful to anyone, a micro-review:

  • Cockpit tub- a full tub with decent detail.  However, the bulkheads behind each seat are completely bare and are starving for detail.
  • Aces II seats- These appear to accurately represent the A-10 variant of the ACES II, which is a little different than the standard F-15 version (good overview here).  These have alot of pieces parts though and are not drop-in.  
  • The photo-etch is of the copper type, a little heavy and a bit harder to work with than say an Eduard set.  Annealing is recommended to soften it up.
  • The instrument panels are also a little heavy and will need to be thinned, but not too bad.  
  • The instrument dials themselves are printed on paper (rather than film).  I found on my example that about 3/4 of the dials lined up, but the others were off register from the holes in the instrument panel.
  • The instrument console for the back-seater is pretty nice and much more accurate than the kit pieces, though it is still a little dry on detail.
  • The instrument dash for the front seat is not entirely accurate, but looks better than the kit piece.  Also, the instructions are not clear on how exactly this piece fits (it mounts from the bottom side of the kit parts, not the top). 
  • A replacement muzzle assembly for the GAU-8 cannon is included.  My example had a damaged barrel.

IMG_7997_500_zpsf37e2ee6.jpg

 

IMG_8100_500_zpsddace4fe.jpg

I'm not going to fret too about the damaged resin piece though as I will be using the Master Model barrel set

 

IMG_7982_500_zps5b6cc4b6.jpg

The kit decals.  One thing I've noticed about the Trumpeter decals is that the stencils are not always stencils.  Sometimes they're good, but often they have incorrect text or even no text at all, but rather just scribble.  For the most part, I've come to distrust these until I research and can confirm otherwise.  As this is also one of Trumpeters earlier releases, the kit instrument panel is a decal.

 

IMG_7981_500_zps94a7d2d9.jpg

The decals from the Tamiya F-15E parts kit.  Stencils are really stencils (readable ones even), accurate and high quality, so this will be my primary set of markings for both the aircraft and the weapons.

 

IMG_7978_500_zpsdd9f24b0.jpg

Some of the other parts that may be used from the F-15E kit- LANTIRN pods, AIM-9L missiles, drop tank, etc.  As the single seat A-10 rarely uses the drop tank for other than ferry flights, I may just use the drop tank in the single seat A-10 kit.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Kai


Edited by EmperorKai, 08 November 2014 - 07:00 AM.

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#4 EmperorKai

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 07:53 AM

Spent some time today looking for some sub-assemblies that could be fast-tracked and thought I'd start with the tail.  Unfortunately I discovered that the tail will take a bit more work than I hoped.

 

IMG_8114_500_zps557219aa.jpg

While test fitting the elevators, I noticed a large gap at the stabilizer root that didn't look right.  After going through reference books and googling some walkarounds, I found that the angle inboard edge of the elevator is too extreme.  The taper of the fuselage is also probably slightly too bulbous.  In comparing to the photo below, I also think the slots for the balances are too deep.

 

TailView_500_zps50a9c634.jpg

A comparison pic of the elevators.  This is of an A-10C banking away that I cropped and rotated sideways for a more direct comparison (from Kagero TopShots).  The kit also appears to be missing the round bulges near the stab root.

 

IMG_8119_500_zps9bb25f03.jpg

The kit also features raised "straps" that are way too thick.

 

IMG_8122_500_zps0b0342e9.jpg

The "strap" is repeated on the bottom side as well

 

a-10a_75-0298_071_of_121_500_zps632a8bca

From an A-10A walkaround with the reinforcing strap, which is much thinner.

 

IMG_8116_500_zpsbc7ec324.jpg

The outboard end of the elevator is typical for kits and could stand for some relief detail

 

a-10a_thunderbolt_ii_60_of_70_500_zps9ff

The outboard elevator end on an A-10C

 

IMG_8125a_500_zpsb51941e7.jpg

A pic of one of the vertical stablizers (I've mirrored it for easier comparison).  There are two things going on here-

 

1.  The upper horizontal edge of of the notch for the rudder is angled downwards at an angle on the kit part.  This should actually be neutral horizontal and parallel with the horizontal stabs.  This will also entail a corresponding correction to the rudder itself.

 

2.  Quite a few sources have indicated that the tail on the modified A-10 was increased in height by adding 20 inches to the vertical fins.  It is also commonly indicated that the A-10B (the production version of the A-10 N/AW) would have had only 8 inches added to the height.  In researching what would be required to do an actual A-10B, I found that the tail on the A-10 N/AW was initially heightened by 20 inches, but that at some point during testing it was in fact reduced to an 8 inch extension.  To modify, about 3/8 inch (9.5mm) of the fin will need to be removed.

 

00_00013_500_zpsb71ed2ce.jpg

A close up for comparison purposes.  I found similar pics dated August 18, 1981 during the testing program with the shorter vertical fin.

 

a_10b1_zpse9d5e767.jpg

Another pic of the A-10 N/AW earlier in the testing program with the instrumentation probe and the vertical fins with the 20 inch extension.

 

Lastly, I'd like to mention and thank Thierry Laurent for his excellent A-10 tweak list, which contains many points that apply to the A-10 N/AW as well.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Kai


Edited by EmperorKai, 08 November 2014 - 08:55 AM.

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In the case:  IL-2 Sturmovik  |  F-8E Crusader  |  Yak-18


#5 Loic

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 08:50 AM

Watching this one !


Cheers!________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In the work :   Dornier Do 335   /   A-1H/J Skyraider   /   Mirage F1 (Scratchbuild)  /  Mirage IIIC

Completed builds :   Hawker Tempest (kitbash)   /   Nakajima B5N Kate (Scratchbuild)   /   Spitfire Mk I

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#6 Viper Enforcer

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 08:09 PM

A little follow-up on some of the aftermarket I'll be using

 

IMG_7951_500_zps97b695b3.jpg

I don't have a huge problem with the Trumpeter tires, but I still generally try to replace the vinyl kit tires whenever I can.  In this case, True Details offers an economical drop-in set.

 

IMG_7946_500_zps21e35694.jpg

The True Details tires seem to have a higher profile than the kit tires.  The details on the rims are also nicer.

 

IMG_7947_500_zps00c2321c.jpg

Unfortunately, the circumferential tread is a disappointment as the grooves are too close together.  The rims themselves should also be a little deeper.  The tread on the kit tires are closer to the real thing though the profile is too "squarish"  and the grooves are very shallow.

 

a-10_44_of_48_500_zps6a0dcf45.jpg

An A-10 main wheel for comparison.

 

 

The Verlinden A-10 N/AW cockpit set has been around for awhile.  Surprisingly, I had a hard time finding a good in-depth review into what is actually contained in the kit.  At a glimpse, it's a complete cockpit set with details that extend into the canopy glass.  In case it might be helpful to anyone, a micro-review:

 

 

IMG_8100_500_zpsddace4fe.jpg

I'm not going to fret too about the damaged resin piece though as I will be using the Master Model barrel set

 

 

 

 

The decals from the Tamiya F-15E parts kit.  Stencils are really stencils (readable ones even), accurate and high quality, so this will be my primary set of markings for both the aircraft and the weapons.

 

 

Some of the other parts that may be used from the F-15E kit- LANTIRN pods, AIM-9L missiles, drop tank, etc.  As the single seat A-10 rarely uses the drop tank for other than ferry flights, I may just use the drop tank in the single seat A-10 kit.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Kai

 

I picked up those Squadron 32nd A-10 wheels about a year and half ago. After I had them in hand, it was quite obvious they were totally wrong; Nose wheel too shallow and pudgy, tires too pudgy and too much side wall, too small diameter wheel/brake hubs, too shallow wheel hubs, fictional tread pattern and brake detail. I seriously doubt they used the real A-10 wheels for reference. I was also not that impressed with the Cutting Edge ones, These were we my main inspirations I used for making accurate A-10 wheels.

 

Unfortunately, Verlinden's N/AW A-10 cockpit has some accuracy issues, mainly the HUD and IPs. All the inside canopy locks and linkage is pretty much omitted. It should also be noted that the aft canopy should not taper aft as it does as the aft canopy was made from the same mold as the front; just cut down on the side height dimensions. Erik can expand more on the Cockpit issues.

 

Go with the Master brass Gun muzzle; much better than the resin one.

 

Spent some time today looking for some sub-assemblies that could be fast-tracked and thought I'd start with the tail.  Unfortunately I discovered that the tail will take a bit more work than I hoped.

 

 

 

IMG_8125a_500_zpsb51941e7.jpg

A pic of one of the vertical stablizers (I've mirrored it for easier comparison).  There are two things going on here-

 

1.  The upper horizontal edge of of the notch for the rudder is angled downwards at an angle on the kit part.  This should actually be neutral horizontal and parallel with the horizontal stabs.  This will also entail a corresponding correction to the rudder itself.

 

2.  Quite a few sources have indicated that the tail on the modified A-10 was increased in height by adding 20 inches to the vertical fins.  It is also commonly indicated that the A-10B (the production version of the A-10 N/AW) would have had only 8 inches added to the height.  In researching what would be required to do an actual A-10B, I found that the tail on the A-10 N/AW was initially heightened by 20 inches, but that at some point during testing it was in fact reduced to an 8 inch extension.  To modify, about 3/8 inch (9.5mm) of the fin will need to be removed.

 

00_00013_500_zpsb71ed2ce.jpg

A close up for comparison purposes.  I found similar pics dated August 18, 1981 during the testing program with the shorter vertical fin.

 

a_10b1_zpse9d5e767.jpg

Another pic of the A-10 N/AW earlier in the testing program with the instrumentation probe and the vertical fins with the 20 inch extension.

 

Lastly, I'd like to mention and thank Thierry Laurent for his excellent A-10 tweak list, which contains many points that apply to the A-10 N/AW as well.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Kai

 

There were two tail cap extensions; 20.5" and 8.5". The one pictured by my buddy Kelly, has the later short tail cap. Most of the flight testing was done with the extended tail cap. If the jet were to have gone into production the tail cap was proposed to be 12 extension, though there were others proposals.

 

There are some other areas to address in order make a more accurate NAW A-10 like shortened wingtip strakes, no CHAFF/Flare modules under the wingtips and TE of the MLG wheel sponsons. Erik Mark would know more, to include the possibility of the "Early" TF-34 Engine Fans.

 

Mike V


Edited by Viper Enforcer, 08 November 2014 - 08:11 PM.

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A1SHMBanner3_zps286fd423.jpg

 


#7 Youngtiger1

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 08:24 PM

Looks like it'll be another nice project ;)
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#8 Dragon

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 08:42 PM

Looking forward to another of your builds Kai

 

Mike


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#9 EmperorKai

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 09:33 PM

Mike V-

Thanks much for the clarification and insight!  This is the kind of info that is hard to weed out.  When it comes to the 2 seat A-10, pretty much all the references mention it as a sidebar, but never really clear, concrete info like this.  

 

One big question I had when studying the A-10B path was what exactly is meant by:

 

"Had the A-10B been produced, the FLIR would have been integrated into the front of the right main landing gear sponson." (WarbirdTech A-10 vol 20, pg 92).

 

I also came across a similar description that indicated that the Nav pod would have been integrated into the left landing gear sponson.  Based on the passage, I envision that the pods would be have basically been mounted on the front of the sponsons, extending them accordingly.  I get the impression that the concept was articulated, but no design work or prototyping was undertaken.

 

Capture1_500_zps884a8a44.jpg

The only pic I have come across that shows the FLIR integrated into the sponson (from Flight International Magazine, December 1979)

 

Given, the testing was done with an AAR-42 FLIR pod and WX-50 ground mapping radar, I also wonder if the same consideration would have been given to the promised LANTIRN AAQ-13/14 system.  To go one step further on an already shaky limb, I am curious how such an arrangement may have affected the location of the pylon stations (ie: would the sponsons have been widened instead of extended to accomodate the layout of the AAQ-13 Nav pod).

 

I suppose that's part of the fun here- if it had eventually manifested and seen operational use during Desert Storm, what would an A-10B have looked like?  Thoughts and notions that come to my mind include:

  • Operational use of the centerline fuel tank to increase range and offset the additional weight of a complete armored tub (I came across pics where testing was done with up to 3 tanks on the A-10 N/AW)
  • LLTV in lieu of the Pave Penny on the forward fuselage mount
  • One piece canopy hinged at the rear instead of the 2 piece, side hinged canopies

YA-10B1USAFPD_500_zpsc1d6f6d3.jpg

AAR-42 and WX-50 pods

 

NAW_A-10_FLIR_500_zps55972814.jpg

Nice close up of the AAR-42

 

showimage_500_zps3ac001cd.jpg

Really interesting pic of the A-10N/AW with what appears to be no less than three 600 gallon drop tanks.

 

Academic, but interesting to mull over (to me anyway :)

 

In regards to the Verlinden set- yeah, dated and a bit of a disappointment, but it's a step in the right direction.  I'm really looking to build this up in a matter of weeks rather than months this time, so I'll have to compromise a bit.

 

Thanks again for looking in on my build!

 

Kai


Edited by EmperorKai, 08 November 2014 - 09:43 PM.

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On the bench: F4D-1 Skyray  |   A-10 NAW  |  Egyptian Mig-19S  |  Boeing P-26A Peashooter  |  Bristol Beaufighter Mk X TFX

In the case:  IL-2 Sturmovik  |  F-8E Crusader  |  Yak-18


#10 EmperorKai

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 09:34 PM

Looking forward to another of your builds Kai

 

Mike

Thanks Mike- Glad you stopped by :)

 

Kai


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On the bench: F4D-1 Skyray  |   A-10 NAW  |  Egyptian Mig-19S  |  Boeing P-26A Peashooter  |  Bristol Beaufighter Mk X TFX

In the case:  IL-2 Sturmovik  |  F-8E Crusader  |  Yak-18


#11 EmperorKai

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 09:40 PM

Looks like it'll be another nice project ;)

Ha- got a little confused there with 3 Mikes in a row   :lol:

 

Thanks buddy

 

Kai


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On the bench: F4D-1 Skyray  |   A-10 NAW  |  Egyptian Mig-19S  |  Boeing P-26A Peashooter  |  Bristol Beaufighter Mk X TFX

In the case:  IL-2 Sturmovik  |  F-8E Crusader  |  Yak-18


#12 EmperorKai

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 09:57 PM

Believe it or not, in between posting and what-not, actually accomplished something...

 

IMG_8106_500_zpsd7439fc7.jpg

The Master Models GAU-8 muzzle assembly all done.   Relatively fast, easy with spectacular results - couldn't recommend it more.  The barrel shroud will need to be drilled out a bit, but that will have to wait until the fuselage is together.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Kai


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On the bench: F4D-1 Skyray  |   A-10 NAW  |  Egyptian Mig-19S  |  Boeing P-26A Peashooter  |  Bristol Beaufighter Mk X TFX

In the case:  IL-2 Sturmovik  |  F-8E Crusader  |  Yak-18


#13 harvey

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 10:09 PM

OH MAN  ! Am I ever thankful for this build. I have one with Sierra  Hotel engines and the same pit. I have dreamt what I was going to build it as

, and always pictured a DS bird. So, I will be fallowing very closely Good luck.....Harv  :popcorn:  :popcorn:


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#14 Loic

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:38 AM

That PEgun is looking great and is one real improvement ;)


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Cheers!________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In the work :   Dornier Do 335   /   A-1H/J Skyraider   /   Mirage F1 (Scratchbuild)  /  Mirage IIIC

Completed builds :   Hawker Tempest (kitbash)   /   Nakajima B5N Kate (Scratchbuild)   /   Spitfire Mk I

Master pattern work:   DB-603 Engine    /   F4U-1 Corsair engine bay 


#15 Viper Enforcer

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 10:26 AM

Mike V-

Thanks much for the clarification and insight!  This is the kind of info that is hard to weed out.  When it comes to the 2 seat A-10, pretty much all the references mention it as a sidebar, but never really clear, concrete info like this.  

 

One big question I had when studying the A-10B path was what exactly is meant by:

 

"Had the A-10B been produced, the FLIR would have been integrated into the front of the right main landing gear sponson." (WarbirdTech A-10 vol 20, pg 92).

 

I also came across a similar description that indicated that the Nav pod would have been integrated into the left landing gear sponson.  Based on the passage, I envision that the pods would be have basically been mounted on the front of the sponsons, extending them accordingly.  I get the impression that the concept was articulated, but no design work or prototyping was undertaken.

 

Capture1_500_zps884a8a44.jpg

The only pic I have come across that shows the FLIR integrated into the sponson (from Flight International Magazine, December 1979)

 

Given, the testing was done with an AAR-42 FLIR pod and WX-50 ground mapping radar, I also wonder if the same consideration would have been given to the promised LANTIRN AAQ-13/14 system.  To go one step further on an already shaky limb, I am curious how such an arrangement may have affected the location of the pylon stations (ie: would the sponsons have been widened instead of extended to accomodate the layout of the AAQ-13 Nav pod).

 

I suppose that's part of the fun here- if it had eventually manifested and seen operational use during Desert Storm, what would an A-10B have looked like?  Thoughts and notions that come to my mind include:

  • Operational use of the centerline fuel tank to increase range and offset the additional weight of a complete armored tub (I came across pics where testing was done with up to 3 tanks on the A-10 N/AW)
  • LLTV in lieu of the Pave Penny on the forward fuselage mount
  • One piece canopy hinged at the rear instead of the 2 piece, side hinged canopies

YA-10B1USAFPD_500_zpsc1d6f6d3.jpg

AAR-42 and WX-50 pods

 

NAW_A-10_FLIR_500_zps55972814.jpg

Nice close up of the AAR-42

 

showimage_500_zps3ac001cd.jpg

Really interesting pic of the A-10N/AW with what appears to be no less than three 600 gallon drop tanks.

 

Academic, but interesting to mull over (to me anyway :)

 

In regards to the Verlinden set- yeah, dated and a bit of a disappointment, but it's a step in the right direction.  I'm really looking to build this up in a matter of weeks rather than months this time, so I'll have to compromise a bit.

 

Thanks again for looking in on my build!

 

Kai

 

You're on the right track for the A-10B proposal. One area that would be hard to pull off would be the solid main canopy, which opens vertically. I'd like to do that conversion sometime.

 

The ground mapping radar would have been incorporated in the jet, though targeting and Nav instruments might have still be podded, like the are today.

 

Lots of way cool proposal option to go here, or even as is; the N/AW A-10 is cool enough.

 

Mike V


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A1SHMBanner3_zps286fd423.jpg

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: A-10, N/AW, Desert Storm, Trumpeter, A-10B

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