Spider cracks in Future..

[Shaka HI]

Thanks Bill, I'll spray straight up Future to see how it goes. In case anyone's curious here's the problem area. I had to shine the light just so...it's in the upper-right corner.

 

[tchwrma]

I'm always surprised that people use Future.

 

People seem happy to pay for a model, the paints, decals, aftermarket cockpits, wheel wells, gun barrels, etc, then cover the lot in a floor polish.

 

Branded varnish is a lot more expensive than Future, but compared to the money invested in everything else, it's minimal.

 

Really, this is mistery. I used Future by a tip from a friend, and got with the same problem, but very higher than in this kit. In my case i Painted the kit with acrylics made in Brazil, coated with future and finished with an enamel varnish.

After 3 or 4 months the crackling strarted. And took dimensions that destroyed the paint job and the decals.

I have to completely remove the paint and redo it. Unfortunately at this time I would not be advised about this issue, so we made the same process, and obtained the same errors. In a 4th paint job(the 3th was not pleasured me), I finally get a paint without crackles. And after then, never used Future again. Except to solve some silvering in decals. But now I use PU varnish, who apparently not react with Future.

Here some pics of the cracklings:

 

 

Cheers, Paulo.

Edited November 29, 2016 by tchwrma

[Shaka HI]

Very interesting...

[Bryan]

I'm always surprised that people use Future.

 

People seem happy to pay for a model, the paints, decals, aftermarket cockpits, wheel wells, gun barrels, etc, then cover the lot in a floor polish.

 

Branded varnish is a lot more expensive than Future, but compared to the money invested in everything else, it's minimal.

 

 

I basically agree...

 

I use Future as a fix on small areas...like clear parts that won't polish out as much as I would like....but I have never liked it as an overall clear gloss.

[MikeMaben]

I have a little knowledge of chemistry. Just enough to make me dangerous.

 

For the life of me, I don't understand the addition of ammonia to future.

 

Future is acrylic, as is Tamiya. If ever I want to remove either, ammonia is the only thing I use. No matter how dry, ammonia will melt either like nobody's business.

 

As a general rule, I alternate paint types; I'll spray acrylic over enamel, or MM clears over acrylics.

 

Yep, I've only used ammonia for stripping not for thinning.

'If' Future needs to be thinned (rarely) I use %91 alcohol.

Also, I've only used Future locally, never an entire model

and never had any crazing issues.

[AdamR]

After trying every gloss clear out there, including Future, I've settled on Tamiya X-22 acrylic. It does not quite produce a "glassy" gloss finish over military flats, but it saves my decals from silvering, gives me no problems and resists well the odorless mineral spirits used in washes. For semi-gloss and flat clear, I use MM acrylics.

 

The only thing I use Future for now is dipping clear parts, a job at which it excels. At that rate of use, I figure my supply of the stuff will last me the rest of my life, unless it solidifies in the bottle. If that happens, maybe I can carve clear scratch-build pieces out of it.

[Shaka HI]

Well, my Peashooter still looks the same and the cracks are barely visible still. I'll try using X-22 clear cut with Tamiya's lacquer thinner next (just read this in Chuck's P-38 article).

 

FYI, I have not experience no where near the type of cracks you see above.

[marauderdriver]

Been using Future for 30 yrs or so and have had 2 incidences of it reacting to decals.

Both times it bubbled up one or two decals out of an entire set and both times in the last

3 years. One set was a Cutting Edge 32nd scale,lost the  multi-color tail stripe and the other

was a Hobbycraft kit set and had to work on getting the bubbles out of one decal after I

sprayed the Future. So I guess I'm saying I've never really had a problem with Future,

but it has made for some great models over the years and don't know why anyone would

pay out the nose for a model paint manufacture gloss coat. But Hey! That's Me

[Radub]

 I've never really had a problem with Future,

 

 

Future is not the "problem". The problem is the combination of Future and certain paints. In my experience, Future reacts with Tamiya and GSI acrylic paints. I never had a single problem with Future over Lifecolor (my preferred acrylics) or any brand of enamels. 

Radu 

[Shaka HI]

Spider cracks? What spider cracks? Let's see how this looks a few days from now..but I sprayed Tamiya's Clear thinned with their lacquer thinner in the cracked areas about 10 mins ago!

 

I can't see them and that area feels dry and hard as Future cured for 24 hours.

 

[Joel_W]

  Spider cracking, and even cracking occurs when the undercoat is not fully cured, which is the final stage of drying. The paint will shrink as it does so.  When fully cured the surface becomes solid and stable. The Spider cracking occurs when a different type of paint, or clear is applied over a surface that is still curing and thus shrinking. Since the base of the overcoat is different then the bottom coat, it tries to continue to dry, but developes those cracks as a way to funnel the moisture out as the normal path of straight up is now blocked. The overcoat in this case sinks into the cracking, and you see it as spider webs.

 

  Decals are prone to this as we tend to apply a sealer coat much to soon.  A single day often isn't enough time for the decal to completely cure, resulting in slight spider cracking as a way to let the moisture leave  the surface.

 

  It's not dissimilar bases reacting to each other. Fully cured paint no matter the type of paint can accept most other paints as long as the new base doesn't dislove the bottom layer of paint. That's why light mist coats are important. A overcoat of lacquer usually doesn't effect the base color coats. I use Dullcoat and Glosscoat over everything but Alcads, and never had a single issue.

 

  Trying to polish out the spider cracking isn't the answer as you can't remove the actual cracks in the decals. Your best option is to remove the Kleer with Ammonia, then just let the decals cure for several days. Then recoat with Kleer. BTW, the product dries and cures without the benefit of additional heat, so baking it in the sun might actually be a unwise decision.

 

  You can also recoat with a clear and it should eventually fill in the spider cracking. the issue is that it will continue to shrink and crack until the decal has cured.

 

Joel

Edited January 7, 2017 by Joel_W

[Shaka HI]

Thanks Joel. Everything you say makes complete sense to me. But I'm going to try and leave Future for X-22/Lacquer Thinner on my next build!

 

(BTW, I let Future cure for at least 2 days, but perhaps, I should wait longer when it's humid here, which is most of the time!)

[Joel_W]

Thanks Joel. Everything you say makes complete sense to me. But I'm going to try and leave Future for X-22/Lacquer Thinner on my next build!

 

(BTW, I let Future cure for at least 2 days, but perhaps, I should wait longer when it's humid here, which is most of the time!)

 

Shaka Hi,

   I had this issue on a nascar chevy body years ago, and from what I can recall, it took weeks to finally dry. I lightly sanded it and then glossed it again. Issue solved.

 

  the lacquer base will slightly dilute the base coat and make it  that much easier to regloss.

 

Joel

[Shaka HI]

FYI, gents, very noticeable cracks have developed on my wonderful Peashooter....I'm actually heartbroken. ALL OVER THE ENTIRE MODEL.

 

[Joel_W]

FYI, gents, very noticeable cracks have developed on my wonderful Peashooter....I'm actually heartbroken. ALL OVER THE ENTIRE MODEL.

 

 

Shaka Hi,

  So sorry to hear that.  I don't recall what you clear coated it with, but the issue is as I said, the color coats weren't cured, only what appeared to be dry to the touch. The Kleer that you used is tends to be somewhat thicker in coating then model type glosses as it's main function is for a floor sealer. The Kleer coat sealed the paint as there was no place for the venting paint gases to go, so they eventually attacked the paint, hence the Spider cracking. The more humidity you paint in, the longer the drying times.

 

 You can try to a few things:

1- do as you did before and carefully using Kleer  brush on coat of Kleer, let dry, and see if the spider cracks are gone or are at least shallower.  if so repeat after several days  until gone.

2- rub out the Kleer with a automotive polishing compound, not rubbing compound.

3- carefully using Ammonia remove all the clear. Let dry for several days, then reseal with X22/LC

 

  Good luck my friend. Keep up posted,

 

Joel