Juggernut Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Based on the overabundance of the "build it and be happy" crowd, I don't even post any issues I discover any more. I do the research, I decide how (or not) to fix an issue and then move on and keep my mouth shut now. If someone else finds out and posts, then that's great and I may even comment on it. If not, well then I guess it's just as well...ignorance is bliss. I email certain people about it and we converse about said issue(s) but I don't dare post anything about it here. When I mentioned inaccuracies about the 1/32 HK B-17G, I'm just glad I wasn't in LSP town; I'd have been lynched or burned as a heretic...even after Boeing B-17 blueprints were posted too! I never once mentioned that the kit was "unbuildable", "fatally flawed", or "nobody should build it"; on the contrary, I indicated that it would be a nice kit to build if you didn't care about total accuracy....didn't matter. I mentioned one time (after the OP indirectly asked for input) that the colors on a certain portion of his build were not prototypically correct (or even in the ballpark for that matter) and almost got my head handed to me by him and two or three others that jumped on the bandwagon post haste. I don't wanna deal with the "can't you just be happy we have a new kit of subject x" rhetoric it's just grating on the nerves and reeks of mediocrity and complacency. In the same breath, I'll also say that I applaud the release of new kits and with each new release, I would expect and hope that the mfg. will improve. In the future however, I may have to censor those topics where the "build it and be happy" mob mentality become prevalent. No kit will ever be perfect (and we all know that) but what's acceptable for one person (or group of people) may not be acceptable to other and this is where the heavy handed moderation (in my opinion) comes into play tilting the scales toward "accept it as is or tell us how to fix it" side of the justice scale. What if I don't want to fix it, even though I know it's wrong.... What if I can't fix it or I don't feel comfortable fixing it? Should I tell you how to fix something I won't fix myself? I should think not.... I won't tell you how to build your model, please have the same consideration. Hell, now I'm not even going to tell you there's an issue with it at all...ignorance is bliss. I take pride in making my models as prototypically accurate as I possibly can, as good as I can. The key works being "as I possibly can" If I build a P-51D-10-NA then it'll have as many of the attributes particular to that block aircraft that I can model with my abilities. If through my research I find that something is painted a certain color, it will be that color on my model. My old form was to post corrections/modifications as necessary to enlighten/entertain the community on the peculiarities of the kit vs. what I'm trying to replicate but my new form is to just do it and post the photos. Those who are curious will ask and I will explain the why's and wherefor's...other than that, I'm clamming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 That's a great pity Juggernut - but have you ever considered the 'tone' of posts? We all translate what we think into typed words differently to each other. I've just had a look at the thread on the B-17G/B-17G tails where it appears you have a wealth of knowledge - but if you re-read your posts they could come across to some as slightly confrontational... I've said this before - but if we were all sat face to face at the same bar with a glass of our favourite tipple in our hands discussing the finer points of B-17 accuracy I'm sure we'd make progress - and more easily read the nuances of what folks are trying to communicate. LSP should be a place where we can share and learn - positively! Iain D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 It is a great pity you're taking that route Tim, I've written some reviews on here and have thought them a futile exercise, but then saw a build recently on another site which refered to one and found it useful, society should be about passing on knowledge. I do think the thread Doug points out was a low point on this site, right from Cees' first, contadictory, post it was dead in the bath, and no amount of reviving was going to save it. The thread should have just been about informative discourse, not folk getting all hysterical, Salem style. I don't need people telling me what to think "just look at the cut and the emroidery on the Emperor's new clothes!", "but he's naked guy!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian79 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) I'm with Juggernaught in that I don't even bother to post errors I find in kits on this site because there is a reoccuring mindset that we should be happy we are getting anything even if its junk, or that somehow it will hurt them if we expose their flaws. I'm of the opinion that manufactuers should be called out for errors or poor research. If we dont then they keep on making mistakes. Feedback, even if brash is a good reminder to them to tighten up. Do you give the manufactuers of other things in your everyday life a pass as well? Edited July 27, 2015 by Brian79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Again - I'm a little bemused by that statement - and will re-iterate my reply to Juggernut that it's a great pity you feel that way. Exhibit #a for the defence - the LSP Tweaks list - which is a little odd if this is a site that doesn't allow criticism, wouldn't you say? And my personal exhibit #b items for the defence - my own He219, Lightning and Revell Spifire IIa threads where I do a lot of correcting and tweaking. As a moderator I should probably sack myself for writing those if we don't allow criticism of new kits? Revell He219 Trumpeter Lightning Revell Spitfire Once again - it's not about criticism per se, it's everything about the way it's delivered... Iain Daniel Leduc, KOG7777, Artful69 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian79 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Once again - it's not about criticism per se, it's everything about the way it's delivered... Iain Perhaps, you shouldn't read too much into tone, thats a losing prospect on forums and chat rooms all across the internet. Just be grateful to get said info, who cares about percieved attitude? wrbrdmech 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Because it's perceived tone that is usually the cause of most spats - and we're the one's that have to pick up the pieces. Just because other areas of the web are uncivilised it doesn't mean LSP has to be! All we're asking is for people to think before hitting the keys - is that so difficult? Iain LSP_K2, LSP_Ron, D.B. Andrus and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 wow - I have to say I don't get this reaction... (on many levels) all that is being rightly requested (IMHO) is that criticism is given in a constructive manner - not that it is not given at all, or that this should become a 'vanilla' forum that is moderated to appeal to everyone and not offend anyone I think any of the manufacturers that tune in here, from cottage industries to global conglomerates want to hear the voice of their customers so corrections on informed issues can at least be considered, if not actually made its simple I think - in essence say what you like, but say it in a way that helps others - thats what communities are for right? Peter mozart, williamj, Out2gtcha and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunwinglow Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Er, I've taken a route? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericg Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I'm with Juggernaught in that I don't even bother to post errors I find in kits on this site because there is a reoccuring mindset that we should be happy we are getting anything even if its junk, or that somehow it will hurt them if we expose their flaws. I just finished the Trumpeter Lightning and posted pics of pretty well every flaw that I fixed and had no adverse comments that I should just build it and be happy. I guess if anyone wanted to comment like that on any of my models, they would be definitely barking up the wrong tree. At the end of the day Trumpeter leave me scratching my head as to how they could mess up even the most basic details, but then again, I find that these are just opportunities to increase my skill level when I fix them not an opportunity to complain about how bad they are whilst the kit sits in my stash. I always think of the Italeri Starfighter and the amount of hate that kit got when it came out when these types of threads pop up. Whilst a lot of people were burning the midnight oil bashing away at the keyboard hating on the kit, I quietly popped it out of its box, built it with no additions and ended up with a model that was every bit as good as anything else in my collection with far less trouble. Eric LSP_Kevin, Derek B, LSP_K2 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfighter366 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Like the song says fools rush in, so here I go. After reading all the post over again I do believe we've got derailed to a point. Like I said earlier I don't worry about some flaws in a kit. That doesn't mean I don't try to fix them or that I don't wont someone to tell me about them. What get's to me is people who start finding things wrong even before the kit is out. Like with the wings on the new Kingfisher kit. Or some who berating a kit saying it's not worth having, and there have been some who have done this. Now before everybody goes flying off the handle or start jumping up and down what I'm talking about is when someone starts stating that the shape of so and so seems to be off. Please!! I've read some where it was started that the curve of the leaning edge of the wing looks wrong at the wing root. This from looking at pics of test shots. Now if you can tell that the wings look three feet to long or it has a 4 bladed prop when it should be three , fine lets know. But if you find that the wing is a scale half inch short forget it. It's not that I don't wont to know about flaws, I do just not the perceived ones by some so called expert or some one telling me don't waste your time on this or that. It's my time to waste if I so choose. Therefore I would like to hear from people like Juggernut on flaws that can be fixed and what he did to do it. That's how we all learn, from each other. I think what a lot of people are tried of is someone trash talking a kit just because they don't like it . Leave it to the rest of us to decide for ourselves . I hope I haven't upset anyone, I feel Ron was right to start with. It's just that sometimes we read things the wrong way or take it wrong sometimes. No one's out to put someone else down, at least I hope not. Gunfighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Er, I've taken a route? Tim Different Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ron Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Time to move on I think.... You either get it or you don't. Life goes on Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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