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I/32nd I.D Vacform RAAF Canberra B.20


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#16 Piprm

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 06:56 AM

Phil, what an awesome project. You're a stud for even taking it out of the box. Going to love watching this one come together.

Cheers
Jim

 

Thanks Kindly Jim..

I blame all this on Eric - of course!

Phil


Edited by Piprm, 24 November 2015 - 07:08 AM.

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First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#17 Starfighter

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 08:05 AM

What a great project - looking forward to seeing how this will turn out! 

 

BTW, you don't need a 3D printing company to scale up 48th scale parts - that's total overkill and won't fit anyway. Why? Because you'd scale up parts which fit a smaller model which already has a bigger material thickness than your 32nd scale vacu kit, so your very expensive parts are going to be too small. Or you have somebody scan the vacu kit and re-work the already scanned parts to make them fit the vacu. In this case, you can directly ask somebody to design totally new parts. My point is: that method sounds fancy and professional, but it makes no sense. Just measure the 48th scale parts, make a drawing, scan it and scale it with a graphics program (or ask you local copyshop). Use the drawings as pattern for new parts made from sheet. Leave some additional material around every part which is in contact with the fuselage and then obtain a perfect fit by sanding them to shape. 



#18 Piprm

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 10:30 AM

What a great project - looking forward to seeing how this will turn out! 

 

BTW, you don't need a 3D printing company to scale up 48th scale parts - that's total overkill and won't fit anyway. Why? Because you'd scale up parts which fit a smaller model which already has a bigger material thickness than your 32nd scale vacu kit, so your very expensive parts are going to be too small. Or you have somebody scan the vacu kit and re-work the already scanned parts to make them fit the vacu. In this case, you can directly ask somebody to design totally new parts. My point is: that method sounds fancy and professional, but it makes no sense. Just measure the 48th scale parts, make a drawing, scan it and scale it with a graphics program (or ask you local copyshop). Use the drawings as pattern for new parts made from sheet. Leave some additional material around every part which is in contact with the fuselage and then obtain a perfect fit by sanding them to shape. 

 

 

Hi Starfighter,

Thanks for your interest and ideas/opinions.

You are right with the scale - effect distortions of enlarging existing parts... and the problems of fitment/adaption it causes...especially when some parts rely on the next piece beside it or part of a combination of parts- together. 

I am looking at any or all options right now... especially in the case of the cockpit. Which is a HUGE challenge!!! ... If you've seen any reference photos or material on this area - you will really see what I mean!

I think (at this point) I might be taking the approach of using different mediums of either: mastering some parts myself, using maybe 3-D and/or mask-cutting options on plastic sheeting and constructing them into what-ever cockpit components.

I have been planning this project for a while now- so i guess I haven't gone into this with cold feet - as they say.

But I'm always open to new ideas or approaches to problem-solving ... so i think this thread will be beneficial to me, as well as some of the followers - here!

Cheers

Phil


Edited by Piprm, 24 November 2015 - 10:33 AM.

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First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#19 Cees Broere

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:53 PM

I am really interested in this build as the Canberra is such an elegant aircraft and the build up ID model kits I have seen looked really good.

And it is a very good candidate for a first vacform.

Tempting tempting.

Cees



#20 dutik

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 02:13 PM

How large or small is a Canberra compared to other aircraft? Do you have another model at hand to show the size of the Canberra?

 

Regards

- dutik



#21 Piprm

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 03:09 PM

I am really interested in this build as the Canberra is such an elegant aircraft and the build up ID model kits I have seen looked really good.

And it is a very good candidate for a first vacform.

Tempting tempting.

Cees

 

Hi Cees,

Thanks for your interest in the Canberra project.

I'm with you!.. the aircraft in itself looks impressive in either model form or real life!

I picked to do it mostly for the reason that the model (in itself) is quite rare... especially in this scale.

.... the other reason is that Number 2 Squadron Canberras were based at Amberley - not far from where I currently live in Brisbane.

I hope to make some parts available to anyone here interested - as I do them.

Seems a waste otherwise...

Cheers

Phil


First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#22 Piprm

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 03:31 PM

How large or small is a Canberra compared to other aircraft? Do you have another model at hand to show the size of the Canberra?

 

Regards

- dutik

 

Hi Dutik,

The aircraft has been generally described as a Medium Bomber (roughly about the size of a Mitchell) ... Erh, the model itself measures about 64 cms wingtip to wingtip (maybe 68 cms with tip tanks) - about 60 cms long in fuselage length and about 18 cms in the main wing chord- which is quite a big wing area! (enough to play a game of cricket on!)

If I remember rightly, Eric G showed a comparison photo between his English Lightning and Canberra mock-up in one of his build threads - a little while ago. (for comparison).

Cheers

Phil


Edited by Piprm, 24 November 2015 - 04:11 PM.

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First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#23 ClumsyDude

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 08:36 PM

Ok, I've found you out...


First RAAF Projects - Near future (currently scrounging for various bits for these)
• F-8 / T7 Meteors
• Canberra
• Beaufort
• Vengeance
• B-29
• Liberator B-24
• Kingfisher
• Ca-27 Avon Sabre
• Mirage single and 2-Seater
• Macchi - 326
• Boomerang

The RAAF flew B-29s?? Anyway the project list rocks, it'll keep you busy for a while.

Jim
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#24 Piprm

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 11:43 PM

Ok, I've found you out...


First RAAF Projects - Near future (currently scrounging for various bits for these)
• F-8 / T7 Meteors
• Canberra
• Beaufort
• Vengeance
• B-29
• Liberator B-24
• Kingfisher
• Ca-27 Avon Sabre
• Mirage single and 2-Seater
• Macchi - 326
• Boomerang

The RAAF flew B-29s?? Anyway the project list rocks, it'll keep you busy for a while.

Jim

 

Arrh Rats!

...You found me out Jim!

Have all these stashed except the Kingfisher... which is near release - so getting one of those soon!.. and the Meteor 2-seater Fisher conversion kit too!

Yes Jim, The RAAF did operate a few B-29's in the 1950's - I think they were referred to as 'Washington's. (I prefer B-29 myself!)..

Looking at the list - i think I picked one of the hardest to do - first!

..but I prefer challenges and honing my skills... (that's why we are here - right?) .... and it just makes for the next one we tackle a lot easier to do!

Phil


Edited by Piprm, 24 November 2015 - 11:50 PM.

First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#25 Piprm

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 11:55 PM

Main%20wing%20legs%20supports%20drawings

 

 

OK - Getting started!

 

With Vacuform construction we need 3 things :

1/.  Accurate blue-print drawings / plans 

2/.  Good reference photos and visual notations/measurements  (if and where possible) 

3/.  A  ruler for the drawings and parts to measure - measure and measure again!.. and if not sure - measure it again!  This is vac-building!

 

As you can see by my additional notations on the plans (which is sadly lacking!)  - the plans are very basic in detail/information - especially in very complex areas such as landing gear areas and components and the geometric connections between all the parts and mounting points.

 

 •Note:  My initial research found general photos of Canberra's from internet /books showing  them flying-sitting on tarmac/hangars and it is difficult to see the undercarriage in any detail. (impossible for the front landing gear!).... it is well hidden!

I had to use photo references and personal inspection of museum aircraft to arrive at these Main Wing Landing gear sketches to get my head around what they are and look like - how they connect/relate to each other and various measurements between the parts and mounting points .. which is critical in the build process - later. Everything had to be 'right' at the start to avoid any head-aches later as far as parts fitment.

It took the first few months at the start of the project to become familiar with each of the parts and how they connect/ relate to each other.

 

- By my past experiences ....The hardest part of the any vacuform construction in the beginning of the build is converting a 2 dimensional drawing into a 3 dimensional model and making ALL the components FIT!

This is my initial challenge and approach to this model and certainly I want the extra parts I am mastering,  to fit and connect with and to each other without any problems and then make these parts fit into the Vacuform fuselage - like a glove!..

They must look right and fit right!

This is my commitment from the start.


Edited by Piprm, 25 November 2015 - 04:21 AM.

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First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#26 Piprm

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:48 AM

Undercarriage: (Main Landing Gear)

 

Here is first 'problem' I discovered - early on ... as the photo shows - and as with most of the landing gear - structures and movement (as it turns out) that no mounting points designed in the main landing gear and surrounding areas is 'Square and flat'' on the Canberra Landing gear. (45 degrees mounting and movement).

 

Canberra%20leg%20mounts_zps1kfwujd8.jpg

 

The more I researched  the engineering structures of the complete Canberra landing gear systems - the more I discovered  all the design of landing gear extension and retraction is 'oblique' movements!

Most all aircraft design in these areas i have found to be 45 degree movements (straight -up and down or at least 45 degree flat- movement in most cases)

This one is all oblique angles!! ... inter-connected with each other!  :shrug:  

Oh Happy-Happy ...Joy-Joy!  :crying:

The more I worked these parts - the more i got into the designers head.

I am convinced now .. that the English Electrics Canberra designer in the 1950's in England,  got his inspiration for his approach to the undercarriage design of the Canberra - from the English weather!

As he walked to the bus on a grey- rainy  english morning - going to work .... he opened his umbrella and saw the unfolding umbrella structure above him... he instantly thought : "Gadfrie.. this is it!... this is how the undercarriage will work!"

Now that I understand how the undercarriage works.. I now have to duplicate this 'Angular-Structure' in miniature! :doh:


Edited by Piprm, 25 November 2015 - 05:29 AM.

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First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#27 Jack

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 09:14 AM

Hi Phill,

 

Just "stumbled" onto this one, so you finally took the plunge and started to build.

And by the looks of it you've got your path laid out for you, i think this'll turn out into a BEOOOTIFUL Canberra, have lots of fun, and if can help (though i think you really don't need it :goodjob: ) just holler.

cheers,

 

Jack.


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everyone in the circuit switch off your radios....now switch 'em back on again......


#28 Piprm

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 09:41 AM

Hi Phill,

 

Just "stumbled" onto this one, so you finally took the plunge and started to build.

And by the looks of it you've got your path laid out for you, i think this'll turn out into a BEOOOTIFUL Canberra, have lots of fun, and if can help (though i think you really don't need it :goodjob: ) just holler.

cheers,

 

Jack.

Hi Jack!

Thanks for finding me here!

Most of my 'build delays' and starting my thread - here... were really due to 'doing my homework'!... which I think, is half the battle - here!

I appreciate your encouragement and support in the past and hope I do you proud!

Yep.. if I get into difficulties (and that's possible here!) I'll certainly get some advice from the Model-Masters (You and Eric G).

Cheers

Phil


Edited by Piprm, 25 November 2015 - 09:44 AM.

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First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#29 Piprm

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 09:54 AM

OK - here we go!

 

Undercarriage Legs (first attempt!)

 

The Front landing gear is not easy to see at the best of times, so I had to find photos - which below was taken from a book showing front landing gear legs at the factory prior to installation on the aircraft.

 

Canberra%20Fr%20leg_zps9f0hhaxj.jpg  

 

As you can see - getting a good 'look' is a challenge!

a7b9c5fd-b1db-4b6e-ad78-f5286ee8b12b_zps

 

 The main wing landing gears - check out the support arms and linkages - which are mirrored parts /  port and starboard sides Main%20leg_zpslbryznfr.png

 

 

Canberra%20metal%20landing%20gear_zpsv65[/

 

My half-arsed first attempt!

Especially with the front landing gear! I thought I would try multi-media (plastic,brass/metal) .. what-ever I could scrounge around the place... but it soon became apparent, that my half-arsed attitude - wasn't good enough!.. I was not happy at all!

Please keep in mind though - that it has been nearly 25 years since I have played with any models at all and this includes being near a work bench and scalpel!

I thought my previous skills would endure time - but as it turned out - I was sadly mistaken!

The second attempt was the main landing gear - with a more serious mind-set this time!...and the resultant main wing landing gear turned out OK - to my mind! 

It was done with metal solder - which I used to use in the past for mastering parts - really good stuff to carve, file, sand, drill  and ...erh - Solder!


Edited by Piprm, 10 December 2015 - 11:30 AM.

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First RAAF Projects - Near future 
• Canberra B-20
  th_Canberra%20A84-236%202010%20flat_zpsf


#30 dodgem37

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 10:10 AM

Nice landing gear.  I would recommend bolstering that stress point.  But that's just me.

 

Sincerely,

Mark


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        Works in Progress:   Italeri 1/35 PT596Tamiya P-51D, Sinai, 1956,

            Completed WiP:  Erich Hartmann, Bf109G-14

                        Idle WiP:  Fw190A-5 Black 7 1/25th IDF Sho't, c.1982Bf109K-4, I./KG (J)6, BohemiaHungarian Bf109G-14, Bf109F-4/Z Trop,Shelf of DOOM!: Kawanishi N1K1 Kyofu Type 11 Rex , IDF AH-1 Tzefa FWerfer-Granate 21's,

   Ready for Inspection: Erich Hartmann, Bf109G-14, Ludwig Franzisket, Bf109G-6





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