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Rare footage of the Red Baron has come to light


TonyT

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nope looks like a streak finish 

What streaked over what?

Some say olive streaked over blue, others say streaked over another color.

 

Makes me seriously doubt that anyone actually knows the actual colors of either Richthofen or Voss's machines.

 

Voss apparently being killed in an F.1 seems unanimous, whereas tradition wants to make the Red Baron's death mount a Dr.1. :hmmm:

 

From what I can tell, you can take your pick of several colors and marking variations both. As a for instance, Voss's cowling, is often painted black, however it has been pointed out that a certain type of B&W film they used then made the color yellow come out black! 

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What streaked over what?

Some say olive streaked over blue, others say streaked over another color.

 

Makes me seriously doubt that anyone actually knows the actual colors of either Richthofen or Voss's machines.

 

Voss apparently being killed in an F.1 seems unanimous, whereas tradition wants to make the Red Baron's death mount a Dr.1. :hmmm:

 

From what I can tell, you can take your pick of several colors and marking variations both. As a for instance, Voss's cowling, is often painted black, however it has been pointed out that a certain type of B&W film they used then made the color yellow come out black! 

MvR only flew one all-red triplane, 425/17 (his last), all his previous triplanes had various degrees of red but not totally red.   Kurt Wolff was killed in F1 102/17 when MvR went on leave.

 

the cowlings of 102/17 & 103/17 look similar to me, so IMHO it is Fokker green.

 

Tony

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MvR only flew one all-red triplane, 425/17 (his last), all his previous triplanes had various degrees of red but not totally red.   Kurt Wolff was killed in F1 102/17 when MvR went on leave.

 

the cowlings of 102/17 & 103/17 look similar to me, so IMHO it is Fokker green.

 

Tony

 

Since the photos are black-and-white, sincerely, how do we actually know MvR's death-mount was actually all-red?

 

And what about the insignia crosses? It looks as though they could not make up their minds, so they picked their own style.

Some full Maltese with the white square background; some with the white background trimmed only, leaving the sharp-tipped corners; some plain straight crosses, surrounded with a white border on all sides, including the tips of the crosses, etc., etc.,...

 

Did his last plane have the sharp Maltese crosses tips blunted, and if so why do so without modifying the white background to be a surrounding border only? Or is this a myth that came from some wag with a single patch of German aircraft fabric with their insignia on it on the barracks wall, messing around with some white paint to pass the time while waiting for his next assignment?

 

And if he did so, does that mean he flew around a while without them modified from the more Gothic style crosses with the full-white square backgrounds?

 

Meanwhile, another "expert" out there contends that MvR did not have sufficient time to paint his war-horse red all over before he was killed!!!!???? :mental:

 

In looking at the extensive 1917 footage that also includes a close-up of Voss's tripe, it looks to me as though it's cowling could have been left unpainted, in the natural aluminum color. Yet one school of thought has rendered many built models of his machine with black cowling's. Did you know that a Fokker triplane's rudder has turned up in possession of a collector that claims was from his machine with a Maltese cross but not on a white, but a yellow background????

 

So doesn't that mean if we could ask three of the Aussie gunners who claimed to help strip the Red Baron's plane's wreckage and possess original patches of fabric, what the machine's actual overall color (colour) was, we might get at least five answers?  :whistle:

Edited by Gigant
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not sure I am following you and your logic.   He flew at least six different triplanes, with some having no red on them at all.

 

there are LOTS of pieces of MvRs last triplane in existence,  There are even three of the crosses from 425/17 still around, they were ordered changed to the straight style in March '18

 

Quite a few photos abound of 425/17 and it looks all one colour to me.

 

Tony

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Great footage!  Thanks for posting.  I have never seen this before.

 

My observations:

 

First, that was definitely Göring as referenced up thread.

 

Second, look at how small and tight that cockpit is!  It's like  a driver sitting in a modern F1 car.  The butts of the machine guns are right in front of his forehead/face when seated in the cockpit.  I find this very purposeful and cool.  

 

Third, look at how massively bulky his flight gear is!  It makes a cramped cockpit much more so.

 

Fourth, I had always heard that the silk scarf was a critical part of the WWI pilot's attire as it could be used to wipe castor oil off goggles, but critically, it kept the skin of the neck from getting chafed as the pilot was constantly turning and looking around for enemy aircraft.  The smooth scarf would protect your neck from rubbing the inside of your jacket or whatever....

 

So, I found it quite interesting that Manfred put his scarf on OUTSIDE the big collar of his jacket, where it would not protect his neck skin at all!  His jacket was lined with soft looking fleece...still interesting though. 

 

Lastly: you could clearly see that the 2 guys who were trying to spin the propeller to fire up the engine said "Go on 3" and gave it a little half pump twice before the big one to fire it up.

 

"Eins, zwei, DREI !!!!"

 

Cool.

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there are LOTS of pieces of MvRs last triplane in existence,

 

There are too many pieces of 425/17 about. There was a bit of a cottage industry in making pieces of 'The Red Baron's Aeroplane'

 

Richard

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