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Right on Ron!

Although i have found (some) modellers to be fanboys and push products at the expense of all others it seems there is a lot of what i would almost call product assassination of some kits in the last few years. Sometime from people with agendas against the company which is unfortunate to say the least.

I think some of the psychology is to put something down that isn't perfect. Sometimes it's a first world problem and sometimes its a cop out to keep waiting for "perfection or to make themselves seem all-knowing.

Fact is - no kit is perfect...

 

Look at the Tamiya mossie and the HK Mossie - two very different kits that will look really similar once finished but because of brand favoritism some people might only buy one or the other.

Fact is both of these are great models and both of them require a different modelling mindset. Simple and ready for superdetail vs super-detailed but complex. 

You know there are some modellers who would prefer to make the very simple Revell Mossie - they are probably having a field day!!  
I say different strokes for different folks!

Let everyone enjoy this hobby in their own way. I know i do.

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[Nic C.D.]

True, true !

 

In the last two year or so, I've built several kits that where critisized quite a bit on forums. According to some posts, it were kits that couldn't be glued because of bad plastic, very bad fit or were off in detail and look by about a mile. Well, I've had a lot of fun with those and never encountered not too much trouble.

 

15 years ago, the only critique you read was "Why isn't there a 1/32 scale ........" but today? I remember the times when all you had in 1/32 jets was an F-4, F-15, F-16 and F-14. Today, we're in the good lane, with what - 15 to 20 new tool kits every year? - and a wealth of kits available. I mean, an F-105, P-61, B-25, Intruder, Pfeil or Uhu, who would have dreamt !  

 

A perfect kit? It would scare me because I'm far from a perfect modeller. Imagine messing up THE perfect kit... 

 

Build them out of the box, build them hyperdetailed, build them in a what if, but just build them! That's the way to get more people going and have even more releases. 

 

Now, I really should build that that F-105, such a fantastic looking jet!

 

Nic

[Artful69]

It's funny to see this thread at the same time as the Blenheim thread has resurfaced, I thought Graham F's post in that thread was extremely negative "50 tops" ie. orders for the kit, I'm hoping more will commit when the images of the prototype are released. 

 

Imagine if Wingnut had announced their first kits prior to any images, probably had the same negative comments, and how many kits have they sold since? More than 50 perhaps..? And maybe such a comment will prevent Benoit from posting on here again? 

 

Yeah ... I'm not prepared to throw out the treasury until I see something to judge value by ... so, I'm one of those waiting to see the results.

Providing I like what I see, though ... he'll get my support for sure (in terms of cash that is!) ...

The Blenheim isn't my favourite subject - but any ETO WWII subject, I'll have a look at - and the new guys need support!

 

Until then though ... all I can do is wish him the very best ... and I really do hope he makes regular appearances to help market what he makes ...

... It really is frustrating when 'Mr.Dark-Cloud' comes to rain on someones parade - especially when he was probably looking to garner interest and support for an LSP subject on a specific LSP site!

 

Rog

Edited July 24, 2015 by Artful69

[Barry]

I think folks want models to jump out of the box and assemble themselves these days as old fashioned modelling skills gradually decline.

 

As much as I hate some of the stuff that Trumpeter get wrong, I see it as more of a challenge to overcome rather than a problem to ***** about.

 

Eric.

Amen!!

[Mark P]

Well, I want to know the issues with kits before I purchase them. Especially at the current prices. Then, I can make an informed decision on the investment. I do have lots of Trumpeter kits choosing to live with some of their inaccuracies and support a new 1/32nd scale start-up (new at the time). Others may opt differently, and that is their choice. The same holds true for Kittyhawk or any other new player in the 1/32nd scale marketplace. If you want to support their efforts by purchasing their kits (flaws and all), then go ahead as I do understand.

 

However, LSP does post the tweak lists here which by there very nature is designed to point out the inaccuracies of scale models in the smallest detail. I didn't read much protesting about those helpful notes.

 

As to the "fanboy" comments, don't people have products they support in all walks of life? How many people will only buy GM pickups and proudly proclaim their support with decals plastered all over it deriding Ford? LSP is just a snapshot of society as a whole in my opinion.

 

I think what is lost on the internet is the "tone" attributed to any post. Like politics it matters. Same holds true for sarcasm.

 

Mark Proulx

[Derek B]

Good point Ron. Some of us here at least attempt to try and identify the more major errors on a given kit (having researched the issues and provided necessary reference evidence if possible) and correct them accordingly (at least, as best as our modelling skills will allow) in a manner which will hopefully encourage and benefit other modellers.

 

Despite criticisms aimed at more recent and new kit releases, we must remember that older, and possibly less detailed or equally inaccurate 1/32 kits are still being sold and made by modellers ou there, and many modellers are very happy to make them, accepting the shortcomings.

 

The only real way of developing individual modelling skills in a manner that will provide the confidence and experience required is to actually cut plastic and do it, which is where the above mentioned older more basic (and relatively inexpensive) 1/32 kits are of value. There really is no substitute for gaining experience by any other way than attempting to rework things yourself and learning from the experience (but of course, only in small and managable steps until confidence is gained - it's the only way that you can eat an Elephant!).

 

We are perhaps victims of our own excpectations here.1/32 kits (and up) are by their very nature, large (hence this website) and therefore demand greater time and attention to detail in order to produce a satisfying model compared to models smaller scales. This point is not always appreciated and lack of time spent developing modelling skills in the larger scales could potentially be replaced by impatience - hence the ever higer expectations for highly accurate and detailed kits that are expected to fit perfectly OOB with little or no assembly effort. 

 

I am old school in modelling terms and proud of it, as it has provided me with a wealth of modelling experince that appears to be in short supply these days. However, it also makes me appreciate even more the advances that has occurred in the moulding technology of new kits, along with superior decals and additional resin, PE and other detail parts.

 

Derek

Edited July 26, 2015 by Derek B

[BiggTim]

I agree, too. This forum is a great, helpful, friendly place where I have learned a lot, and I'd love to keep it positive. Hopefully I have not contributed to any bashing. I did say last week that I wouldn't buy either of the new Mosquito kits, but I didn't make it clear that it's because I'm not interested in Mossies enough to fork out that kind of dough. I am totally pleased to see great companies like Tamiya and HK make them, they're just not my cup of tea.

 

Personally, the older, cheaper kits with less detail are usually what I can afford, and I enjoy the challenge.

[Zero77]

There is too much negativity here lately on new releases in my opinion. We have many new companies bringing new subjects in our scale and even with their flaws it is a godsend.  I am personally tired of seeing the slamming of manufactures on research errors.  Pointing out errors is fine, but these new players are getting zero thanks for giving us something new. If it isn't perfect, belly up and model it perfect or start your own company to sell to us. 

 

I am sure those watching us are open to change to improve but we are getting a huge vibe of perfectionism or it's crap and that's not right.  LSP is not a place to slam manufactures for flaws,  it is a place to identify them, find a solution, and share that, a place where changing them or not is up to the builder and not judged, change or leave as is accepted,  a place where beginners are welcome and we want them to contribute. Being so critical on a new release surely doesn't encourage more to join for fear of a lack of knowledge. Not cool..

 

I commend these folks for bringing forward  these releases, hats down, flaws or not

 

RP

 

I agree !

 

I am very happy at the moment of all the great new stuff that has been released recently ! Injected plastic or resin, it's raining new kits of new subjects. Kittyhawk, Wingnut Wings, Trumpeter, Silver Wings, Aerotech, HK Models, Revell, and sorry for all the other i've forgotten. And same for the amazing AM stuff from AMS, Zotz, and so on...

 

The only downside is that i'm not able to put a single euro aside.....

[LSP_K2]

I'll pile on here too, and say that I agree with the favorable comments posted here. A Kingfisher in this large scale, is more than welcome by me, and if it turns out to have some technical shortcomings, so be it. After all, it's far better than no Kingfisher at all, and I presume that if I choose to do so, I might just be able to make an attractive presentation out of it. Kudos to KH for stepping up to fill some voids.

[98Wrangler]

We do live in exceptional times for 1/32nd scale models. And the future looks maybe even better. So the firms that do go out and produce other than "iconic" aircraft should be supported as best we can. That includes encouraging them not only with purchases but with positive remarks and criticisms about their product. After all, as modelers what we need are a good representation of the subject that we can work on to bring up to our perceived level of perfection.

 

We should all be aware that each of us has a "bias" whether for a nationality or particular airframe. It is only human, and the last time I checked it seemed that mostly humans frequented this site. Having said that, there are some here who produce models that sometimes defy believability in the "other world" level of detail hand crafted into the kit or the amazing perfection of the paint scheme and weathering. Something for the rest of us lowly "muddlers" to attempt, after we get our jaws shut.

 

Happy modeling.

[Iain]

Two thoughts...

 

Constructive, thought through, valid, objective, helpful, fair criticism - Good

 

Histrionics/Melodrama/Personal Attacks/Hyperbole/Profanity - Very Bad Form

 

All IMHO of course 

 

Iain

[D.B. Andrus]

 

 

However, LSP does post the tweak lists here which by there very nature is designed to point out the inaccuracies of scale models in the smallest detail. I didn't read much protesting about those helpful notes.

 

 

 

 Mark

 

I think the key word in your reference to tweak lists is "helpful".  

 

Cheers,

 

D.B.

[andromeda673]

I'm stoked to see all of the new kits coming out in 1/32, as a guy who started with only 1/48 and was completely intimidated by the large scale, I started with some "look down" on kits, but you know what, I learned from them, and now I'm making the proper changes, converting things and fixing errors. Also filling gaps with styrene and even scratch building where needed. 

 

It's fun correcting things here and there, and if a kit isn't perfect then so be it. As long as it looks like a F-4 Phantom when done, and it was only $44.00 from Revell, then that's win. I don't build for rivet counters, and for those that are, I applaud you and really look up to those that have the skills, the dedication, and the desire to take on projects like that. Maybe one day that will be me. 

 

If a new kit comes out, and somethings wrong, or dimensionaly off, then I guess I can live. At least we have those here that can point out whats wrong, but to just un-dress a kit maker for making something so "wrong" to me doesn't make sense. 

 

It's nice seeing all of the new releases, and I welcome them all!!!!! 

 

Please if any MFG's or kit makers are reading this, we or I would love to see a S-3 viking, or ES-3, with fold able wings. I'd gladly shell out a week's hard earned cash for that kit! 

[Rowen]

I once saw a post where someone claimed they refused to build the HK B-17G because it was 3mm too short and sold the kit. Mind you, it's over 700mm in length. Equates to a whopping 0.4% error. That was just the far side of ridiculous to me. Yet I doubt this person has built any model at all where they made sure they sanded the plastic (or resin) down to scale thickness for that particular model.

 

But then I realized that people like this don't build models for the joy of the hobby and the Art of the Pursuit. They do it (or not) because they have to prove an imagined point, most likely in an attempt try to make themselves look good.

 

Fact #1: No model is 100% accurate. It is scientifically impossible to make a model 100% accurate. It's not the Real Thing.

 

Fact #2: The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good.

 

Fact: I've been building models for nearly 45 years. I don't think I have ever once worried over a few missing rivets, a couple mm too big or short, the wrong color callouts, etc. I just love to build models. I don't really care if they are not 100% accurate (see Fact #1).

 

Fact: Most of us that are not anal about rivets are sometimes at fault for sitting here on the other side of the screen and never telling all these models companies "Hey! Thanks for the great effort! I really appreciate you bringing out a model like this! I'm buying it and building it to support you!" ie - our voices are drowned out by the vocal minority.

 

We should all think about this.

 

-Ro

 

p.s. But...someone!! Please!!! A 1/32 Martin B-26 Marauder!!!

[Guest Peterpools]

Ron, well said.

It's no secret which side of the coin I've been on for for a very long time. Nothing is perfect and the modeling world is open to any way you wish to build a kit: OOB, add details to your hearts content and if you feel the need to correct what ever seems wrong and needs correcting; go ahead and enjoy. Those of us who are on the plus side in years, remember when the new releases were slim and even none at all some years. Hoping future kit releases enjoy our welcome.

Peter

Edited July 24, 2015 by Peterpools