Enamel paints

[LSP_Matt]

hi guys,

 

I've tried Mr Metal Colour by Gunze.(I took a hint from Klaus's He163 build)

I thinned using Tamiya X20 enamel thinners and I love the finish... but... it seems to take ages to dry.

 

Any hints on accelarating the drying time or is this just a feature of enamels vs acrylics?

 

Previously I've used almost exclusively acrylics ( Mr gunze/Tamiya) because thats what was readily available. They dry very fast and are easy on clean up.

 

But...

 

Metallic acyrlics have only ever given me mediocre results. Using the same airbrush techniques/settings with the enamels I'm finding a far superior metal paint finish is achieved...it seems silky smooth whereas the acrylic always seems flaky ( regardless of thinners/paint ratio). I think drybrushing might be easier as well as the particle sizes of metallic colour seem much smaller.

Am also interested on any other tips you may have on using enamels as opposed to acrylics.

 

Thanks Matty

[D Bellis]

I've used enamels almost exclusively for over 30 years. I have tried acrylics (Tamiya, Gunze, MM to name a few) here and there to see if they have improved to a point where their durability and user-friendliness have come close to enamels, but acrylics havn't even come close yet. The pretty smell of acrylics is NOT a good enough reason to use them , IMHO.

 

Drying time has never been a problem when using enamels with common Laquer thinner, also known as "cellulose thinner" in some parts of the world. I can normally handle painted parts within 15 minutes of shooting the paint on.

 

HTH,

D

[LSP_Matt]

Thanks D...I have some Mr Colour Thinner...does that sound like a cellulose one? I might give it a try.

 

But 15 minutes...wow...thats a really fast dry time. Doesn't it seem too fast? Is that a rapid drying paint or just the particular characteristics of the type you use? I got the impression most enamels were 'leave to dry overnight jobs' at the very least?

 

Cheers Matty

[Guest LSP_Jay L]

Hi Matty;

 

D is completely right, and I agree with him 100%

 

Acrylics have not improved enough to make them an equivalent to enamels, although they are an alternative. Why is beyond me, but that is just my opinion. I started on Acrylics, and when I tried enamels for the first time I found them actually much easier, faster in cleanup time, and far more durable.

 

I have found several ways to speed up the drying time, and one is indeed with Cellulose or Laquer thinners as D mentions. I use the best quality White Spirits I can get, as this also greatly improves the qualities of the paint.

 

I have also used a product called Terebene which is a turpenoid substance that you definitely do not want anywhere near your orifices! This stuff will greatly accelerate the drying times of enamels, although I only reccomend using it with GLOSS colours, and matt tends to dry faster anyways, and you will run into probelms with them dryinf way too fast if you use it in matt paint. I find Humbrol matt paints dry in about 15 minutes when sprayed with cellulose thinners, as D mentions above.

 

Imortant to note though, is that I personally leave everything overnight to dry, regardless of whehter or not I have accelerated the drying time. Just habit. It is the safer way to go. I will move on more quickly if I need to and I only use Terebene as and when it is necessary for speeding a project up, or with gloss paints.

 

I have some of the Mr. Metal colours, so I will have a go and see if they are anything like Alclad, in which case they may not need thinning. Alclad dries in minutes.

 

Cheers mate,

 

Jay

[Astro32]

Matty,

I've never liked acrylic metallics either. My favorite metallic paint is kind of a homebrew; I take Model Master Metalizer and add some clear lacquer to it so it's more durable. Clear enamel with a lacquer thinner chaser would work as well.

HTH!

[D Bellis]

Matty,

First off, Jay offers top-shelf advice. As for your specific questions:

 

I have some Mr Colour Thinner...does that sound like a cellulose one?

I doubt it, but I have no 1st hand experience with it and am reluctant to give you definite 'NO'. That is most likely similar to average quality, medium-dry white mineral spirits, and probably not as "hot" as laquer thinner. Often, medium-dry mineral spirits act great as reducers, but take forever to off-gas out of the paint once the surface 'flashes' - the end result being that the paint remains tacky for a longer period of time.

 

Try your local paint shop (or even general store's paint department) for laquer or cellulose thinner.

 

But 15 minutes...wow...thats a really fast dry time. Doesn't it seem too fast?

Not to me! Just average.

 

Is that a rapid drying paint or just the particular characteristics of the type you use?

It really isn't the paint, but the thinner and how well the mixture is atomized by the airbrush. FWIW, laquer thinner works pretty much the same with every brand of enamel that I use.

 

I got the impression most enamels were 'leave to dry overnight jobs' at the very least?

With mineral spirits, yes, that can be true. But laquer thinner causes the paint to off-gas very quickly before the surface has a chance to trap in the carriers in as it 'flashes'.

 

HTH,

D

[LSP_Matt]

Thanks lads...Had a look at my local and the only new thing was some Tamiya Lacquer thinners...it smelt exactly like the thinners I used to use on Acrylic car paints ( I sprayed and panelbeat cars to fund Uni).

 

I'll shoot up the paint shop in a minute and see what they have.

 

IIRC I think the more whiffy the solvent the more volatile it is...it evapourates out of the paint faster.

 

Aussie is not exactly replete with modellers products. ...will need to go on a scrounge.

 

Cheers Matty

[Coolie]

Hey man, check out Frontline hobbies Frontline Hobbies

They do good mail order for all sorts...I order from them a bit. They are in Newcastle, Ill be there in a couple of weeks, might have some time to drop in.

[Guest canuck63]

Hi lads,

apart from the fact that I'd be more than happy to leave the acrylics and orange-smelling glue to tots ,enamels are definitely more durable,less fiddly(you've got to find the right thinner for the brand,clean the airbrush fasterthanthis to avoid using a 1/32 thermonuclear device to get rid of the cr#p inside the sucker aso!) and work well even if hyper-diluted and sprayed on in many layers to achieve the results you're after...not to mention that they never "pearl-drop",even if you've buried your kit inside a boatload of Doritos !

I wanted to let anybody know that Gunze(Creos)Mr.Color Thinner is GREAT to thin enamels and laquers(it was made for the latter),but it's also GREAT to strip the paint from parts or complete kits without marring the plastic,even if you soak the parts in thinner and leave them there overnight!I know that there are many other methods to do that,but I've done it several times and keep on ordering the stuff from Rainbowten(Those guys are tops when it comes to service! )!

Cheers

Manu

[AceofClubs]

Hi all, acrilics thumb down.

I'm a AFV's modeller and i pst years I used Humbrol, only. In particular there was a Pale yellow which was the perfect shade for German tanks. Then I tried Tamiya acrilics. Good but you cannot use them for drybrushing. In my fisrt aircraft project I used Aircraft colour. IMHO too much problems. Remember my disaster on 109. Someone said to me to try Lifecolor.

I think that I'll return to Humbrol. With pleasure.

All the best

Fil

[Lancman]

Naa don't like acrylics bought the Xtracrylic barley grey for the Tonka and it's thinners and tried airbrushing it on after a few trials and I didn't like it at all :angry: so off it came with the help of IPA. At least the Tonka got a damn good clean as it took off some of the base coat as well, so it's back to the enamels even with their longer drying time I feel you get a better finish and they are like an old slipper (warm and comfy)

 

Graham.

[LSP_Matt]

Thanks for the feedback guys and also the offer Coolz. I'll have a litle more time next week to check out the model scene in Melb...might do a run down to Snowy's, if only to show them Jays magi-sanders. They are I think the ONLY ones in Melb with ALCLAD.

 

Cheers Matty

[jbrundt]

I switched from enamels to acrylics several years ago and have never looked back. That being said I still use enamels and lacquers for metallic colors. IMO acrylics cannot duplicate metal shades very well and the formulation of acrylic paint does not lend itself well to metal shades.

 

Jeff