Pete Fleischmann Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 . @Neo: Ever been trying to spot a Mirage F1 during within-visual-range engagements head-on from, let's say, one or two miles away? Airfixer: Yes I have. "one or two miles" is pretty darn close..but rarely is a high aspect engagement purely nose-on. There is typically some vertical displacement or heading crossing angle/aspect that reveals some planform. As a fighter pilot, If you don't have a tally-ho by the time the fight collapses to one or two miles, your SA is in the toilet. If it is a regular occurrence, you might want to consider a different line of work. Sure, it's small. So is an A-4, T-38..Mirage 2000..even the F-16. The Air Force has kicked it's adversary platforms to the curb to find money for the F-35..and it's a damn shame. I wish the various private contractors that are stepping up to provide adversary support all the luck and success that they can muster- Cheers, Pete mpk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero77 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Mirage F1 hunting a F-14 : Jack, mpk and Bill Cross 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airfixer Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Time will tell if it's been a good idea to further outsource critical capabilities to civilian contractors. But that's another story. Zero77 and mpk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cross Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) ... we only were stupid cowards and traitors. I saw a (french) report this week called "why do foreigners hate us?". In fact "foreigners" means "american". Damn, i heard things really shocking that were broadcasted on some US TV Shows.... According to what i heard : We french stink, we are arrogant, we are lazy and only work 6 months a year, we are almost a kind of rapists and everybody is having sexual intercourse with anybody, we are cowards and always flee or surrender, our army sucks, we are traitors, and so on... Very wrong and not nice at all. ... Indeed France was much stronger at the time of Kings... Sorry, i'm digressing from the Mirages ! When a fellow American disparages French courage and military prowess, I refer them to the Musee de l'Armee in Paris which shows France was THE superpower from about 900AD up through the early 19th Century when it took a Grand Coalition to defeat Napoleon. I personally LOVE France and even like Paris where I have visited numerous times (the Parisians are just New Yorkers with a funny accent ). The French are none of the generalizations floating about, and in fact are usually harder on themselves than visitors. There are always exceptions, but same for the US where rudeness is not unknown. As for body odor, someone should make sure attendees at model shows got the memo about regular bathing. I intend to have a t-shirt made up for model shows that will read: "Bathing doesn't require a college degree or a hefty checkbook and I shouldn't have to remind anyone." Edited July 21, 2017 by Bill Cross mpk, Jack and Zero77 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Alas, yes it seems that's Putin and the russian now. But we french never really were the big bad guys, we only were stupid cowards and traitors. I saw a (french) report this week called "why do foreigners hate us?". In fact "foreigners" means "american". Damn, i heard things really shocking that were broadcasted on some US TV Shows.... According to what i heard : We french stink, we are arrogant, we are lazy and only work 6 months a year, we are almost a kind of rapists and everybody is having sexual intercourse with anybody, we are cowards and always flee or surrender, our army sucks, we are traitors, and so on... Very wrong and not nice at all. The only things that were true is that our leaders dont always set a good example (you know François Hollande and his scooter is also considered as stupid and ridiculous in France, and everybody here consider Dominique Strauss Khan as a pervert !), and indeed we have a pretty strong left branch, and our leaders usually have no balls and just give up to the first difficulty. The conclusion of the report was that "the american" hates us because the british hates us, and the british hates us for centuries because England was founded by some french who kicked out the original anglo-saxon kings. Funny ! Indeed France was much stronger at the time of Kings... Sorry, i'm digressing from the Mirages ! Things like that give us a bad name. I wont go deep, but lately sometimes Im embarrassed to say what country Im from. Dont worry Nick this Yank has lots of love for you!! Jack, Zero77 and mpk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Is it a result of the president diner in Eiffel tower last week? Careful on the Chateau Yquem! Donald, we also have some Amx30... Fab Out2gtcha, mpk and Zero77 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 The french are "cheezee eating surrendermonkeys" according to groundskeeper Willie! :-) Zero77 and mpk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero77 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Things like that give us a bad name. I wont go deep, but lately sometimes Im embarrassed to say what country Im from. Dont worry Brian, so i am ! When i see some french leader speaking and giving lesson to the world, i'd prefer saying i'm swiss. The french are "cheezee eating surrendermonkeys" according to groundskeeper Willie! :-) Lol, actually that was in the report i was talking about. And someone replied "cheese eating monkeys, we dont care, that's funny. But surrender, that's insulting !". One just have to check our WW1 casualties, and how many soldiers we lost in the few weeks of the Battle of France in WW2. And also our own Alamo, the Battle of Cameron, where 62 legionnaires fought more than 2000 mexicans. They only accept to give up when they were out of ammo, to heal their wounded. Only 6 were still in state of fighting. One of the most epic stories in the french army history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n mpk and RNoAF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobyDoo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 ...Makes me wonder why we aren't using all of the MiG-29's we bought from Moldova in this role. The F-1 is a surprise..should be interesting. Pete Because they are junk? One Maple Flag even the A-10s were getting kills on the Mig-29s. RNoAF and mpk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobyDoo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Is hating the French still a thing? I thought it was the Russians who are the big bad guys down there again. No, not with Trump being buddy-buddy with the Russians. mpk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutik Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Beg to differ. The US instructors flying German Mig-29 9-12 testified that a Mig-29 could easyly overcome a F-16 in aerial combat. Some features were Substandard compared to US aircraft, other features were more than good enough to give them an edge over US aircraft if deployed proper by the pilot. Well, to save of the Moldovian Mig-29s from falling them into Iranian or other hands is only one part of the story. This US none-prolifertion program was were the funds came from, The hidden part of the story is the fact that the Moldovian (well, Moldova, every time I write this the finishing Scene from the movie R.E.D. pops up, ...Moldova), back2topic - they operated the 9-13 variant. 9-12 A was the Export variant for the good WARPAC clients, 9-12 B for the Substandard WARPAC clients and worldwide export. Both variants lacked some features of the variants for the Soviet AF. 9-13 was the "soviet only" variant with better radar, more armament options and - most interesting - the build-in soviet ECM system not provided to any export variant. The US were keen to get one to examine it so buying the Moldovian Mig-29s 9-13 was done ASAP when the Moldovians wanted to sell them. But the compartments of the ECM System were empty. The Russians removed that sensible parts prior to the shipment of the Migs from Moldovia, via an agreement with the Moldovian gouvernment. On the other hand - the 4477th Test & Evaluation Squadron had some Mig-29s in the 90ies at hand and in the air. This is the squadron that provided the real McCoy for top gun training, to give USAF pilots experience in combat against soviet/russian fighters and to teach the pilots to bring them down the first Moment they see them. 4477th has proven to bring any soviet aircraft in the air and to make workable any kind of equipment even if recovered shot up from a remote battlefield. So it is an educated guess that they again could bring the Mig-29 in the air if required - and that there is no actual need to do so today. Regards - dutik Bill Cross, Jack, mpk and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I think the Mirage is pretty. Bill Cross 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I think you re right mpk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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